Anybody read Believe Me?
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:11 pm
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
Don’t know any Christian who is a fan of Trump?PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:22 am I don't know any Christian that is a fan of Trump.
That said, he doesn't attack Christians like other candidates do.
Maybe there is a lesson there for democrats ?
In 2016 Trump got 81% of the evangelical vote.
I don't understand this claim. What attacks are you talking about?PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:22 amThat said, he doesn't attack Christians like other candidates do.
Fea actually makes the point that one of Clinton's major blunders was her failure to court evangelical voters, and I think he has a point. And the Democrats have consistently made the mistake of permitting the Christian right to use the word "Christian" to represent themselves and only themselves, when in reality there are tens of millions of liberal Christians in America. That said, I'm not going to say the Dems should stop attacking Christians until somebody demonstrates that they ever were.
You don't feel that attacks on Christian beliefs are attack on Christians?edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:30 amIn 2016 Trump got 81% of the evangelical vote.
I don't understand this claim. What attacks are you talking about?PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:22 amThat said, he doesn't attack Christians like other candidates do.
Fea actually makes the point that one of Clinton's major blunders was her failure to court evangelical voters, and I think he has a point. And the Democrats have consistently made the mistake of permitting the Christian right to use the word "Christian" to represent themselves and only themselves, when in reality there are tens of millions of liberal Christians in America. That said, I'm not going to say the Dems should stop attacking Christians until somebody demonstrates that they ever were.
Wikipedia sums the movement up pretty well:
The Christian right or the religious right are Christian political factions that are characterized by their strong support of socially conservative policies. Christian conservatives seek to influence politics and public policy with their interpretation of the teachings of Christianity.
Attacks on Christian beliefs could be characterized as attacks on Christians, but that doesn't answer the question. What Christian beliefs are being attacked? In what instance are Christians being denied the right to live and worship as they see fit? What rights do others have that are not extended to Christians?PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:56 pmYou don't feel that attacks on Christian beliefs are attack on Christians?
Attacks on Christian beliefs could be characterized as attacks on Christians, but that doesn't answer the question. What Christian beliefs are being attacked? In what instance are Christians being denied the right to live and worship as they see fit? What rights do others have that are not extended to Christians?I said BELIEFS, why are you referring to rights ??
Christians I know realize that there are Christians with all manner of political beliefs. But we CAN call out certain political beliefs as not lining up with Biblical Christian teachings - like with abortion, by the way. When we see certain things, we CAN pick and choose what to criticize. But I think aligning oneself TOTALLY with ANY party is bad - because the party's are filled with flawed human beings, with each of them having the potential to back, say, and do bad things. And as for which party a Christian backs - even if they tend to lean more toward one party than another, we still no politics is a secular approach to life and that there are plenty of non-Christians and even atheists in ALL political parties. No party is full of saints and the rest populated by devils.Ed: Democrats have consistently made the mistake of permitting the Christian right to use the word "Christian" to represent themselves and only themselves
I hope you're not saying that Christians shouldn't be involved in politics or that our faith shouldn't greatly influence how we make political choices. Because every Christian SHOULD make political choices, amongst the ones available - even when those choices are sometime almost all terrible and there's only a bit of hope that one choice might lead to better things than another. That's just life. Otherwise, we concede every choice to whatever majorities might result from Christians simply exiting the process. And our faith SHOULD influence our choices - as well as everything we do. If one believes we serve an all-powerful God and that His ways are best - even if we often imperfectly enact how we think we should reflect that - we should be so influenced.FlieG: I think religion has way too much influence in American politics. Way, waaaaaaay too much. A similar state of affairs exists in Iran. Any politician who brandishes a Bible or a Quran as a badge of honor is suspect to me.
Abortion is one of the things that Fea discusses at length. He says that the Christian right's anti-abortion efforts are seriously misguided and that they're wasting time and money on a fight that cannot be won and are destroying their own credibility in the process.
Generally true, but at the moment the GOP is the Party of Trump. There may be saints left in the party, but they're keeping their heads down. The dominant figures in the current Republican Party are the President and his sycophants. Nobody else matters.
So, God makes it clear to Christians what He considers to be life, that we are planned even before the womb, and in it we are already completely human, and that ALL human life is sacred (all people bare His Image). And excepting killing in war or defending oneself, only HE has the right to take it. And so we're wasting time on opposing what God says is a terrible thing - the unnecessary taking of a human life???!!! Ed, that's your atheism and purely secular / political beliefs informing you of this. Christians are held to a differing and higher standard for what our values are. We must constantly choose between extremely problematic, messy politicians - that's just the real world we all face!Ed: Abortion is one of the things that Fea discusses at length. He says that the Christian right's anti-abortion efforts are seriously misguided and that they're wasting time and money on a fight that cannot be won and are destroying their own credibility in the process.
Ed: As Fea says, better to invest that money into making people's lives better than on a hopeless political struggle.
There are realities that we cannot help, that we must choose from - and Trump is one of those unfortunate personalities - an extremely messed up, mixed bag, per his political stances and words. But there are also considerable realities concerning the other party. It's not "corrupt Trump" vs. "Pelosi, Chucky, and the all-saints choir!" Ed, what you're basically trying to do here is demonize Christians in an attempt to make them look like hypocrites, when the reality is, their choices are pretty bad right now - and that's just amongst the Republicans we have to choose from. I can describe the kind of choices I would greatly prefer - but that's just wishful thinking, at the moment.Ed: ...at the moment the GOP is the Party of Trump. There may be saints left in the party, but they're keeping their heads down.