Audie: Oh one other thing. You speak of "naturalists" and how foolish they are.
I could speak of "creationists" in the same light. After all, I spoke to one who said excess water from the "flood" went to Neptune to serve as a warning beacon against incoming rogue angels. And that dinosaur tracks in coal were from dinosaurs playing in the angels' coal bins.
Audie, you are seriously comparing persons spewing nonsensical, mythological ramblings with those legitimately asking reasonable questions that ALL origins depend upon? Very poor dodge!
Audie: How about if instead of speaking of persons not present, and stereotypes, you address an actual person who you believe fits the above stereotypes in your post? "evolution is an argument against God" Honestly.
Audie, what turnip truck did you just fall off of? We have seen one atheist after another revel in wanting to assert various aspects of evolution as their answer to why they don't believe in God. First, they see it as the mechanism that shows no God was necessary. And they typically believe that the answer for the universe has to lie in some sort of naturalism/uncaused processes, so we see a lot of comparing what the Bible says about Creation to what various people assert about evolutionary processes. For most atheists, in their minds, if evolution/natural selection is true, then the Bible is complete hogwash.
I kinda doubt you can find anyone. Talk abut pointless and redundant talk without the explanatory antecedent!
Yeah, Riiigggghhhtt, no one popularly believes that evolution refutes the existence of God. I guess there are just about a million variations of the below on the back of cars around the world for no reason:
But, just because it is a wide-spread popular belief that evolution/Darwinism refutes belief in God doesn't mean that atheist scientists don't also typically believe that evolution refutes God???!!! I mean, give me a break!
“If all the evidence in the universe turned in favor of creationism, I would be the first to admit it, and I would immediately change my mind. As things stand, however, all available evidence (and there is a vast amount of it) favors evolution.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
"For Darwin, any evolution that had to be helped over the jumps by God was no evolution at all. It made a nonsense of the central point of evolution."
- Richard Dawkins
"Darwinism removed the whole idea of God as the creator of organisms form the sphere of rational discussion. Darwin pointed out that no supernatural designer was needed; since natural selection could account for any known form of life, there was no room for a supernatural agency in its evolution."
- Julian Huxley, English evolutionary biologist, eugenicist, a leading figure in the mid-twentieth century evolutionary synthesis
"Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent."
- William Provine, University Professor at Cornell University and American historian of science and of evolutionary biology and population genetics.
"There is indeed one belief that all true original Darwinians held in common, and that was their rejection of creationism, their rejection of special creation. This was the flag around which they assembled and under which they marched. When Hull claimed that “the Darwinians did not totally agree with each other, even over essentials”, he overlooked one essential thing upon which all these Darwinians agreed. Nothing was more essential for them than to decide whether evolution is a natural phenomenon or something controlled by God. The conviction that the diversity of the natural world was the result of natural processes and not the work of God was the idea that brought all the so-called Darwinians together in spite of their disagreements on other of Darwin’s theories."
- Ernst Mayer, one of the 20th century's leading evolutionary biologists
"The theory of evolution demolishes the best reason anyone has ever suggested for believing in a divine creator."
- Daniel Dennett, cognitive scientist whose research centers on the philosophy of mind, philosophy of science and philosophy of biology, particularly as those fields relate to evolutionary biology and cognitive science.
Audie, while I could go on, I do understand that YOU (to your credit) realize evolution arguments do NOT refute the existence of God. But please don't pretend a very large percentage of atheists - many of whom are also scientists - don't also believe that evolution most certainly DOES refute the existence of God
. And THIS is why I say explaining what came first, how the conditions, complex mechanisms, mind-blowing levels of comprehensively interactive components existing in those mechanisms are crucial to explaining how evolution would even be possible - as THAT is THE key question that is often quickly dismissed by those wishing to talk only about processes - processes that supposedly occurred nearly 10 billion years before the first biological life even showed up (if you take the current, widely accepted age for the earth, as do I). Because rejection of the fact that this needs to be answered leads to mind-blowing statements like the one below.
"Far from being a once-in-a-million event that could only be accounted for by extraordinary serendipity or a divine hand, the Big Bang was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, Hawking says. “Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing
, why the Universe exists, why we exist.”
- Stephen Hawking
"“Because there is a law such as gravity..." Stevie, my dear boy, so what created GRAVITY - and all of those other laws that, with great, unfathomable precision, guided and set the parameters of what came into existence? Last time I checked, such incredibly complex laws could not have created themselves. But I guess when one believes that the universe could have created itself from NOTHING, you don't sweat the small stuff like, where did THE LAWS THAT GOVERNED THE EARLY UNIVERSE come from???!!! Brilliantly stupid, that boy is!