Evidence for God from Science

Perhaps we can settle on this somewhat balanced article by Alveda King: I Wish I Had Encouraged Nelson Mandela to be Pro-Life on Abortion (http://www.lifenews.com/2013/12/10/alve ... -abortion/)

Kurieuo wrote:Perhaps we can settle on this somewhat balanced article by Alveda King: I Wish I Had Encouraged Nelson Mandela to be Pro-Life on Abortion (http://www.lifenews.com/2013/12/10/alve ... -abortion/)

Sounds much more balanced to me, yes he did bad things, yes he supported abortion but he is just as human and just as fallible as us, but he also did some good things too and we should not forget that.

At one point in my life I was also pro choice even though deep down I knew it was wrong, we all make mistakes.

High ranking member of the mass murdering South Arican Communist Party.
After becoming SA's President, initiated one of the most liberal abortion policies in the world.
Advocate of homosexual (faux) marriage before it became popular.

Yet you won't hear this in the mainstream media.

aCultureWarrior wrote:High ranking member of the mass murdering South Arican Communist Party.
After becoming SA's President, initiated one of the most liberal abortion policies in the world.
Advocate of homosexual (faux) marriage before it became popular.

Yet you won't hear this in the mainstream media.

I've heard those things reported by the mainstream media, but I don't think that's whats frustrating you. I think that you want to hear Mandela condemned by the mainstream media, and it frustrates you that it hasn't happened. And to make matters worse, most Americans aren't as offended as you are. Heck, most of us aren't offended at all.

If you can't handle taking in information that hasn't been tailored to fit with your world view there are plenty of conservative Christian news outlets that you can access.

SkepticalSkeeter wrote:

aCultureWarrior wrote:High ranking member of the mass murdering South Arican Communist Party.
After becoming SA's President, initiated one of the most liberal abortion policies in the world.
Advocate of homosexual (faux) marriage before it became popular.

Yet you won't hear this in the mainstream media.

I've heard those things reported by the mainstream media, but I don't think that's whats frustrating you. I think that you want to hear Mandela condemned by the mainstream media, and it frustrates you that it hasn't happened. And to make matters worse, most Americans aren't as offended as you are. Heck, most of us aren't offended at all.

If you can't handle taking in information that hasn't been tailored to fit with your world view there are plenty of conservative Christian news outlets that you can access.

I did not know it was a Christian thing to believe murder was wrong. Oh actually, hang on... silly me. I did!

Kurieuo wrote:I did not know it was a Christian thing to believe murder was wrong. Oh actually, hang on... silly me. I did!

Is it murder to use deadly force to resist a government of racist foreigners that invaded and conquered your people and then used violence to repress and dominate them for decades? Seems to me that you might be glossing over half of the story in order to better make your point.

SkepticalSkeeter wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:I did not know it was a Christian thing to believe murder was wrong. Oh actually, hang on... silly me. I did!

Is it murder to use deadly force to resist a government of racist foreigners that invaded and conquered your people and then used violence to repress and dominate them for decades? Seems to me that you might be glossing over half of the story in order to better make your point.

If resisting a government of racist foreigners means includes bombing women and children or lighting people on fire then leave me out.

Kurieuo wrote:

SkepticalSkeeter wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:I did not know it was a Christian thing to believe murder was wrong. Oh actually, hang on... silly me. I did!

Is it murder to use deadly force to resist a government of racist foreigners that invaded and conquered your people and then used violence to repress and dominate them for decades? Seems to me that you might be glossing over half of the story in order to better make your point.

If resisting a government of racist foreigners means includes bombing women and children or lighting people on fire then leave me out.

I can't say I'd be up for it either, but then again, I'm warm, safe, and well-fed in a prosperous, stable, democratic nation. I can go where I want and do what I want, with no fear of being arbitrarily detained, beaten, or killed by the police. If I were a black man in 1950's South Africa I might see things very differently.

So do you have personal experience with brutal repression and arbitrary violence at the hands of a foreign conqueror? And if not, how can you possibly judge the actions of people in that situation?

And yet people praise Mandela like Ghandi reincarnated.

I still don't see how you justify Mandela. Two wrongs don't make right. And he even endorsed murdering his own people who saw things differently via "necklacing".

If only your American Indians were able to place you in a tyre full of petrol and set it alight huh? Perhaps they'd be justified to start bombing shopping malls and killing women and children, eh?

Anyway, I've had my say here. Think what you like. I respect Ghandi. Not Mandela.

Kurieuo wrote:And yet people praise Mandela like Ghandi reincarnated.

I still don't see how you justify Mandela. Two wrongs don't make right. And he even endorsed murdering his own people who saw things differently via "necklacing".

Got a source for that? It sounds a bit fishy.

Kurieuo wrote:If only your American Indians were able to place you in a tyre full of petrol and set it alight huh? Perhaps they'd be justified to start bombing shopping malls and killing women and children, eh?

Not sure they'd be justified right now, but at various times between about 1600 and 1900 they probably would have been.

Kurieuo wrote:Anyway, I've had my say here. Think what you like. I respect Ghandi. Not Mandela.

I respect them both, even though there are aspects of both their lives that I find troubling.

So, I don't know if people follow her, but Lauren Southern has been doing some journalism om South Africa. She'll be releasing a documentary on her visit over there, interview white "priviledged" farmers.

I add this video here since we/I had previously argued and shared videos on Mandela which contradict the saintly view people often have of him. Well, if you've heard of Mandela's rainbow nation, watched even in his movies how he brought people together, you should know that too isn't true. It's a failure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8-G9hMY-qk

If white priviledge exists in America, then it most definitely doesn't in South Africa. Recommend watching Southern's series so far, she's got half a dozen views currently up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONs1gpw ... OwT0VPNTzt

White privilege is an excuse to blame others for their own laziness and failures.

Excuses and placing blame on others, is a problem in America. Not white privilege.

I kind of threw "priviliedged" in there to stir the pot a little, since I know many Americans can't fathom whites in any other manner than being privileged. *ahem* Australia has no such leftist racism.

Excuses and placing blame on others, is a problem in America. Not white privilege.

I can tell you that many minorities DO experience a lack of opportunities due to widespread prejudice. One would have to be blind to not see this. Many companies fail to hire non-whites. And so in areas where the majority of hiring decision makers are white, this will be experienced more - merely due to a numbers game. Ah, but those so convinced that the majority race is more prejudiced than their own: IF the majority of employers were black, you'd see the same percentages of employment denial directed at whites. If the majority were Hispanic, you'd see the same percentages of race-based denials pointed at both blacks and whites. Particularly in private companies, they hire those they are culturally comfortable with. It's the same mentality in which nepotism or hiring just people from whatever same schools, etc. thrives. I worked for a large private company in which the owners were extremely prejudiced and would not hire blacks or minorities. When the company went public with their stocks, that slowly changed. But NO minority was ever hired into management - EVER. Now, this may go on more so in the South, but I seriously doubt it.

The further north one goes, especially outside of large cities, the population tends to be more homogeneous - at least per skin color. But then it begins to break down into European ethnic groups. And well into the 20th century, in the Northeast, it was a big deal for many if Polish married Italian, or Irish, and vice versa. Catholic wouldn't marry Protestants.This is so often the way people think. Back in the '70s, seeing interracial couples was rather unique - many were freaked out about it. Nowadays, few, except for the exceptionally racist, will bat an eye.

However, the above all being common, it is also common that many people look to race to explain every perceived slight - even or often when that is not what is going on. Constant racial thinking is ultimately self-defeating, certainly where it's not warranted by the facts.