Evidence for God from Science

I tell you what guys - for a gift that Paul said that was the least of gifts - this business about tongues is still really bothering me. Only because now it seems to be all around. One of our house group members said that in a recent prayer meeting they were praying and all of a sudden they started speaking in a language they didn't understand. She felt a lot of joy because of it - so now - was that from God? Today at our prayer meeting at the school I work at, I brought up the subject and both of the people in the meeting said that they had experienced speaking in tongues and they felt Joy and close to Lord when that happened.

So I feel happy for them - yet there is still a part of me that thinks this is all wrong, really wrong. And because of me thinking that this is wrong and I am now worried that I am calling something from God wrong - which is something that Jesus accused the pharissies of doing. So as you can imagine I am in a bit of a Dilema here. I am worried about the next time we have a group prayer at our church and one or more of them starts speaking in tongues, what am I suppose to do?

Maybe I am thinking about this too much. But in a way it does scare me - because if these are genuine cases of the baptism of the Holy Spirit then why can't I experience it? I believe in Jesus, I believe in my salvation through Christ alone. So if this is true - why is the Holy Spirit reject me?

Silvertusk.

Perhaps it is becuase I grew up in a non-charasimatic chuch, but I am very sketptical of speaking in tongues. I have felt great joy many times.

I actually don't like the whole concept and really don't think it is scriptural that God would provide gibberish as evidence from HIm. But I have refrained from joining in the conversation because, well, I don't want to take away from anybody else's experience. But frankly, no need, no desire, and no scriptural demands that we do so.

So, Silvertusk, I wouldn't worry about it at all.

zoegirl wrote:Perhaps it is becuase I grew up in a non-charasimatic chuch, but I am very sketptical of speaking in tongues. I have felt great joy many times.

I actually don't like the whole concept and really don't think it is scriptural that God would provide gibberish as evidence from HIm. But I have refrained from joining in the conversation because, well, I don't want to take away from anybody else's experience. But frankly, no need, no desire, and no scriptural demands that we do so.

So, Silvertusk, I wouldn't worry about it at all.

I grew up outside of the Pentecostal Charismatic movement but my Dad's side of the Family is Pentecostal and A/G. I also spent several years at Oral Roberts University so I've been quite closely associated with it in the past.

As a young man I explored the Charismatic movement and gifts. I'm not anti-charismatic but I've pretty much come to the conclusion that there is a danger in pursuing the gifts and trying to garner experience as a basis for ones Christian walk. I've come to the conclusion that tongues can be an evidence of the Holy Spirit and Spirit Baptism, but it is not required, nor are those who exercise such gifts more spiritual or mature than those who don't, at least not on that basis.

Silvertusk wrote:So I feel happy for them - yet there is still a part of me that thinks this is all wrong, really wrong. And because of me thinking that this is wrong and I am now worried that I am calling something from God wrong - which is something that Jesus accused the pharissies of doing. So as you can imagine I am in a bit of a Dilema here. I am worried about the next time we have a group prayer at our church and one or more of them starts speaking in tongues, what am I suppose to do?

Maybe I am thinking about this too much. But in a way it does scare me - because if these are genuine cases of the baptism of the Holy Spirit then why can't I experience it? I believe in Jesus, I believe in my salvation through Christ alone. So if this is true - why is the Holy Spirit reject me?

Silvertusk.

Silver,

I don't think the Holy Spirit rejected you... And yet some groups who speak in tongues can also act like pharisees also.. Again as a former charismatic and mystic myself, speaking in tongues did NOT fulfill me spiritually at all. I was not getting spiritually fed. I believe the true way to live in the spirit is to live a life of love. The giving of yourself unconditionally... Not speaking magical works, but doing and partaking in magical works...

Silvertusk wrote:I tell you what guys - for a gift that Paul said that was the least of gifts - this business about tongues is still really bothering me. Only because now it seems to be all around. One of our house group members said that in a recent prayer meeting they were praying and all of a sudden they started speaking in a language they didn't understand. She felt a lot of joy because of it - so now - was that from God? Today at our prayer meeting at the school I work at, I brought up the subject and both of the people in the meeting said that they had experienced speaking in tongues and they felt Joy and close to Lord when that happened.

So I feel happy for them - yet there is still a part of me that thinks this is all wrong, really wrong. And because of me thinking that this is wrong and I am now worried that I am calling something from God wrong - which is something that Jesus accused the pharissies of doing. So as you can imagine I am in a bit of a Dilema here. I am worried about the next time we have a group prayer at our church and one or more of them starts speaking in tongues, what am I suppose to do?

Maybe I am thinking about this too much. But in a way it does scare me - because if these are genuine cases of the baptism of the Holy Spirit then why can't I experience it? I believe in Jesus, I believe in my salvation through Christ alone. So if this is true - why is the Holy Spirit reject me?

Silvertusk.

I too have spoken in tongues like others, and felt close to God during worship while doing it. If it is any consolation I do not believe it was anything more than gibberish now. Then again, I was skeptical while talking the gibberish as well, but still did it helped me focus on God and make me feel closer to Him.

I personally see it as a harmless oddity... however have noticed Christians in charismatic churches seem to be always chasing a personal experience of God (it is all about what they can get from God) and such I think breeds a kind of selfishness.

Silver,

I'm not a John MacArthur fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I would highly recommend his book Charismatic Chaos. It is absolutely outstanding on this issue. I appreciate what charasmatics are trying to do, but it is simply not biblical. It's an experience they are after based on a complete misunderstanding of a few obscure passages that have been conflated into a single doctrine. "Tongues" of today are far more similar to the mystery religions of Greece and the paganism of the near-east than to anything the early Church did.

Just my .02, but seriously, check that book out. Absolutely amazing, and very, very easy to read.

Thankyou - I will look out for that one.

God Bless
SIlvertusk

Being from a Pentecostal Church (Not Background however) I hear Tongues quite a bit. My Mother-In-Law prays in it constantly. Really to me it is just Gibberish and I can't understand what she is talking about. Sometimes it makes me feel inferior as I have never spoken in Tongues before. One thing though I do believe is that you should not speak in it unless there is an interpretation that follows. Our Church agrees with this as well so when Tongues is spoken out loud we wait for an Interpretation. Still Skeptical

bizzt wrote:Being from a Pentecostal Church (Not Background however) I hear Tongues quite a bit. My Mother-In-Law prays in it constantly. Really to me it is just Gibberish and I can't understand what she is talking about. Sometimes it makes me feel inferior as I have never spoken in Tongues before. One thing though I do believe is that you should not speak in it unless there is an interpretation that follows. Our Church agrees with this as well so when Tongues is spoken out loud we wait for an Interpretation. Still Skeptical

Who is doing the interpretation...person speaking in tongues or another person?...this coming from a total skeptic on the speaking in tongues thing...me.
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Jac3510 wrote:Silver,

I'm not a John MacArthur fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I would highly recommend his book Charismatic Chaos. It is absolutely outstanding on this issue. I appreciate what charasmatics are trying to do, but it is simply not biblical. It's an experience they are after based on a complete misunderstanding of a few obscure passages that have been conflated into a single doctrine. "Tongues" of today are far more similar to the mystery religions of Greece and the paganism of the near-east than to anything the early Church did.

Just my .02, but seriously, check that book out. Absolutely amazing, and very, very easy to read.

I have just ordered this book now. I had another experience of charismatic prayer last night and again it really freaked me out. There was people falling over, grunting - almost howling, wailing and tongues. I felt very uncomfortable and had to leave - which was probably a little bad as I was one of the organisers of the event.

Both myself and my wife was very confused after the event. Especially when we both felt that this really can't be how the Holy Spirit works. If it is? Then why are we feeling uncomfortable?

Silvertusk

Silvertusk wrote: I had another experience of charismatic prayer last night and again it really freaked me out. There was people falling over, grunting - almost howling, wailing and tongues. I felt very uncomfortable and had to leave

Sounds like a scene from a horror movie!

Silvertusk wrote: I was one of the organisers of the event.

It looks like the Evil One managed to get invited...

(just my 2 pence.)

I just re-read my post above and would like to clarify something: I don't think Silvertusk is the «Evil One» but when I re-read the post, that is what I seem to be saying.

This is the idea I was trying to express: If people start falling down and twitching and howling like wolves during an evangelical event, then the Evil One managed to get in.

My sincere apologies to any who may have been offended.

Silvertusk wrote:
I have just ordered this book now. I had another experience of charismatic prayer last night and again it really freaked me out. There was people falling over, grunting - almost howling, wailing and tongues. I felt very uncomfortable and had to leave - which was probably a little bad as I was one of the organisers of the event.

Both myself and my wife was very confused after the event. Especially when we both felt that this really can't be how the Holy Spirit works. If it is? Then why are we feeling uncomfortable?

Silvertusk

I would have felt and done the same thing as you. 1 Corinthians 12 - 14 goes over this. Paul says if someone does speak in tongues, one or two should speak, and there should be an interpretor. Paul was instructing about orderly worship. Since what you observed wasn't anything near orderly, and in fact very sensual and animalistic, I would avoid it. From what others have said here and from my own experience, people doing this kind of thing are spiritually prideful (and deceived). I have heard of recent examples of tongues that are biblical - for giving the gospel to peoples of different languages and for giving a God-given message with an interpretor - but the scene you describe seems far from biblical.

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:I just re-read my post above and would like to clarify something: I don't think Silvertusk is the «Evil One» but when I re-read the post, that is what I seem to be saying.

This is the idea I was trying to express: If people start falling down and twitching and howling like wolves during an evangelical event, then the Evil One managed to get in.

My sincere apologies to any who may have been offended.

That did not occur to me at all. But thankyou very much for that kindness.

Well i have finished reading Charismatic Choas. An absolute brilliant book. I reccommend that everyone read it. I am now quite convinced that "tongues" are the languages of man and do not exist today and what people do utter are simply gibberish. Plus apart from Miracles (healings etc..) that God himself wants to do, there are no more big style "Prophets" and there has not been since the Aspostlic age. There is no more further revelations from God apart from what is in the Bible itself.

Jesus warns us against false prophets and messiahs who will show signs and wonders. How are we to guard against these - by understanding that there are no more prophets since the close of the New Testament, and will no longer be until the coming of Christ.

These so called revivals of the Holy Spirit are to be looked at with skeptism and all "spirits" need to be tested. I believe genuine miracles come from God himself and he may present them as answer to prayer but not through one "spiritual healer".

I believe the Holy Spirit dwells within us at the moment of belief and not subsequent to that. I believe the evidence of the Holy Spirit is shown not through "gifts" but through the fruits of the spirit and especially by showing love to your fellow man as that is the greatest proof that the Holy Spirit lives within you.

I beleive that Charismatic worship in pursuit of these gifts is dangerous and can lead to Christians believing they are second class and disillusioned and it is certainly not edifying the church.

I am so glad I have got all that off my chest and I apologise to anyone that I may have offended.

God Bless

Silvertusk.