Reason to believe (The learning version)

[RickD]

I am being ignored in this thread.

Did somebody say something?

[RickD]

oldman wrote:
Didn't you know that Adam was made in God's image with the Spirit of truth being the heart of his nature?

On the day Adam listened to Satan and desired a greater wisdom, and ate the forbidden fruit there was a very obvious instant death in Adam. The perfect Spirit of truth, sovereign in the then perfect Adam, became corrupted into a spirit of lies and rebellion against his Father. The pure and perfect Spirit that was the innermost ruling character in Adam was now dead in Adam, and this spiritual death was followed many years later by Adam's physical death.

Can you show me from scripture, your belief that Adam had the indwelling Holy Spirit?

oldman wrote:
I have the Spirit of Truth (The Holy Spirit) inside me and one of the reasons why He will never be "killed off" in me is because I now know where the road of pride and rebellion leads...

Please explain when you got this spirit inside you, and how it got inside you.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Up until 3 years ago, I had almost daily contact with a man who smoked pot, smoked cigarettes, ate a family-sized bag of Cheetos per day and washed it down with a 1.18 liter bottle of beer. His name was Daniel and I had no reason to doubt his salvation. Daniel's pot and beer habits allowed him to cope with his very damaged life: his brain was fried ever since childhood, from parental abuse, and from poor choices he made as he grew up.

Having said that, I don't doubt that it is possible to be saved and smoke pot. My objection to oldman's habit comes more from the biblical injunction to respect the laws of the land. Unless oldman lives in a jurisdiction that permits marijuana (or medical marijuana with a prescription), then he is breaking the law.

I habitually drive way over the speed limit...

FL

[oldman]

oldman wrote:
Didn't you know that Adam was made in God's image with the Spirit of truth being the heart of his nature?

On the day Adam listened to Satan and desired a greater wisdom, and ate the forbidden fruit there was a very obvious instant death in Adam. The perfect Spirit of truth, sovereign in the then perfect Adam, became corrupted into a spirit of lies and rebellion against his Father. The pure and perfect Spirit that was the innermost ruling character in Adam was now dead in Adam, and this spiritual death was followed many years later by Adam's physical death.

Can you show me from scripture, your belief that Adam had the indwelling Holy Spirit?

“Let us make man in our image and likeness” Genesis 1:26. Had Adam not been made with the Spirit of truth as the innermost ruling character in him then he would not have been made perfect in the image and likeness of God.

oldman wrote:
I have the Spirit of Truth (The Holy Spirit) inside me and one of the reasons why He will never be "killed off" in me is because I now know where the road of pride and rebellion leads...

Please explain when you got this spirit inside you, and how it got inside you.

Believing in a god you cannot explain and finding the God of reason offensive, it will not do you any good if I told you every little detail of when and how I was born again.

[RickD]

RickD wrote:
Can you show me from scripture, your belief that Adam had the indwelling Holy Spirit?



oldman wrote:
“Let us make man in our image and likeness” Genesis 1:26. Had Adam not been made with the Spirit of truth as the innermost ruling character in him then he would not have been made perfect in the image and likeness of God.

oldman,
Genesis 1:26 does not say that Adam had the indwelling Holy Spirit. It says man was made in God's image and likeness. Nowhere does it say or infer that man was made with God indwelling him.

Again, I ask you to show me where in scripture it says Adam had the Holy Spirit of God, who is God Himself, indwelling him.

RickD:
Please explain when you got this spirit inside you, and how it got inside you.


oldman wrote:
Believing in a god you cannot explain and finding the God of reason offensive, it will not do you any good if I told you every little detail of when and how I was born again.

oldman,
This whole issue started because you asked me a question in another thread. You asked:

Now RickD please give a clear answer, was it good or evil that led me to write down these words?

If you want me answer you, you need to clarify issues that I have with what you're saying. If you're not going to cooperate with your own question, then what's the point of you being here?

If you are saved, and the Holy Spirit is in you, you will have no problem answering my questions. On the other hand, if you are being led by another spirit, then this spirit will not want you to answer my questions.

The ball is in your court oldman...

[oldman]

oldman,
Genesis 1:26 does not say that Adam had the indwelling Holy Spirit. It says man was made in God's image and likeness. Nowhere does it say or infer that man was made with God indwelling him.

If the eternal Spirit of truth that governs all creation was never given to Adam then he would never have been made perfect in the image and likeness of God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit),

Whoever denies this will deny anything.

Adam was made in God's image with the Spirit of truth being the heart of his personality.



I have been and still am, willing to cooperate but you show contempt and hatred for the truth when it stares you in the face. You also refuse to explain what you believe in.

Do you seriously then expect me to answer this: “Please explain when you got this spirit inside you, and how it got inside you”?

The ball is in your court oldman...

Tell me what you believe is the essence and character of the Spirit of truth and I will start taking you seriously.

The hypocrites avoid explaining what they believe for fear of being exposed.

[B. W.]

oldman,
Genesis 1:26 does not say that Adam had the indwelling Holy Spirit. It says man was made in God's image and likeness. Nowhere does it say or infer that man was made with God indwelling him.

If the eternal Spirit of truth that governs all creation was never given to Adam then he would never have been made perfect in the image and likeness of God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit),

Whoever denies this will deny anything.

Adam was made in God's image with the Spirit of truth being the heart of his personality.

I have been and still am, willing to cooperate but you show contempt and hatred for the truth when it stares you in the face. You also refuse to explain what you believe in.

Do you seriously then expect me to answer this: “Please explain when you got this spirit inside you, and how it got inside you”?

The ball is in your court oldman...

Tell me what you believe is the essence and character of the Spirit of truth and I will start taking you seriously.

The hypocrites avoid explaining what they believe for fear of being exposed.

Actually, Oldman

The burden of proof is in your court to prove, not Rick’s.

Why – Truth is – you made an assertion and Truth demands that you back it up.

Genesis 1:26 speaks contextually of God designing human beings to be a reflection – an ambassador – to govern the limited sphere of this earth as His representative. God did not make humanity another god, equal with him, or greater. He fashioned human beings to reflect his likeness in governing – how – by having dominion of the earth, etc…

Gen 1:26 NKJV, "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

You see, this is very simple, and contextually sound and true to the Genesis account and ancient Hebrew Vocabulary.

Next, the truth is that God breathed into Adam the breath of Life – and not the Holy Spirit. If God had actually placed the Holy Spirit in Adam the text would read quite differently.

Gen 2:7 NKJV, And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

The breath of life is different from the Holy Spirit. The book of Job reveals this principle of Truth:

But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding. Job 32:8 NKJV

There is a spirit of Man and it is that spirit that was breathed into Adam and from Gen 1:26-28 we pass this spirit of life, our human spirit, to our progeny as God gave the command/promise.

Zec 12:1 NKJV, The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him.

Note also Proverbs 18:14 and 1 Co2:11 as well too shows there is a difference between a spirit of man and God's Holy Spirit.

Also the bible says this too: there are false spirits too

Micah 2:11 NKJV, If a man should walk in a false spirit And speak a lie, saying, 'I will prophesy to you of wine and drink,' Even he would be the prattler of this people.

And it is written as a command that we…

1 John 4:1 NKJV, Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Now oldman, the spirit you speak of that tells you to prattle with cannabis, a mind bending substance, telling all, it is okay to use is no different than what Micah wrote of in Micah 2:11.

That is why, Rick and others here on this Forum ask you – by which spirit do you speak?

There are spirits that masquerade as a holy spirit but these never identify themselves as belonging to the Godhead as the Lord YHYH Yeshua who came in Human Flesh and defeated all the works of the evil one. That is Truth.

False holy spirits rather spout and claim identity with such things as truth, but act so ungod like by their angry words, threats, false accusations, ploys of acting self righteous, and playing the martyr card. In other words seek to draw folks after some mode of destruction of mind and soul as Micah 2:11 mentions.

We who know the Real LORD YHWH Jehovah God, Yeshua – Jesus the Christ are called upon to test the spirits. So we have legal right, and command form the Lord to test your spirit and that is why we ask – what spirit is in you.

The one you demonstrate does not comply with the bible, or the LORD of HOST.

Correct?

Do you know who I am?
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[PaulSacramento]

No spirit from/of God would tell you to take into your body anything other than the HS of God, to be "like God".
There is only ONE spirit that goes into Us and makes us cry out "Abba, Father" to out creator and that is the HS of God.
That HS does not NEED you to take ANYTHING to be one with God because He ( the HS) is all you need to be one with God.
Any spirit that tells you that you need anything other than that is not of God.

[neo-x]

I can't believe someone is actually trying to find a religious excuse to smoke pot...and we are entertaining him?

[oldman]

Do you know who I am?

Only in so far as you are like someone who opposes the truth when it stares you in the face.

Stop waffling and tell me what you believe is the essence and character of the Spirit of truth and then I will start taking you seriously.

The hypocrites calling themselves Christians avoid explaining what they believe for fear of being exposed for what they are.

[neo-x]

Oldman, YOU ARE WRONG, period.

[B. W.]

Do you know who I am?

Only in so far as you are like someone who opposes the truth when it stares you in the face.

Stop waffling and tell me what you believe is the essence and character of the Spirit of truth and then I will start taking you seriously.

The hypocrites calling themselves Christians avoid explaining what they believe for fear of being exposed for what they are.

I knew your response would be just as it is. This shows that the truth spirit you have is not from YHWH at all.

Again, it is you who must identify and define what you mean by spirit and what you mean by truth.

Your speech and tone does not line up with the how the bible mentions we are to communicate.

As stated before, your doctrines and words do not line up with the bible. You claim the spirit of truth led you to partake of cannabis. By your own words, cannabis has become your god and your spirit of truth i.e. illumination.

The True Holy Spirit of YHWH leads you to Yeshua Jesus the Christ alone. There is no needed extra help from cannabis to aid one's search for God. We are concerned that you have strayed into another spirit that is controlling you leading you to be of those YHWH Himself mentions in Micah 2:11

"Suppose a prophet full of lies would say to you, “I’ll preach to you the joys of wine and alcohol (strong spirits)!” That’s just the kind of prophet you would like!" Micah 2:11 NLT

The LORD would not permit this, nor approve of such truth about the glories of cannabis and how it has helped you to find god all done subtly in order to entice others to join your lead. The verse above reproves one of such thought. The Hebrew and Greek LXX word translated alcohol in the NLT translation of this verse refers to being intoxicated by any substance and not confined to alcohol alone. Cannabis fits the bill here.

Jesus himself declared in John 14:6 NKJV, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Your claim is that god sent you cannabis to enable your search for truth and claim that by cannabis is the way how your spirit of truth leads you to god - correct?

How can that line up with YHWH's own words mentioned in the above two verses?
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[oldman]

Do you know who I am?

Only in so far as you are like someone who opposes the truth when it stares you in the face.

Stop waffling and tell me what you believe is the essence and character of the Spirit of truth and then I will start taking you seriously.

The hypocrites calling themselves Christians avoid explaining what they believe for fear of being exposed for what they are.

I knew your response would be just as it is. This shows that the truth spirit you have is not from YHWH at all.

What this actually shows is that the god you worship is different to the God I worship. I worship the God of reason and truth revealed through the life and death of the Lord Jesus, the only rational hope of man being saved.

Again, it is you who must identify and define what you mean by spirit and what you mean by truth.

That is what I have already done, and I thank you for the for the opportunity to do so. Anyone can see what I mean by the Spirit of truth by reading all I have written here.

You on the other hand, have constantly ignored my requests to explain what you believe is the essence and character of the Spirit of truth.

Your speech and tone does not line up with the how the bible mentions we are to communicate.

As stated before, your doctrines and words do not line up with the bible. You claim the spirit of truth led you to partake of cannabis. By your own words, cannabis has become your god and your spirit of truth i.e. illumination.

The True Holy Spirit of YHWH leads you to Yeshua Jesus the Christ alone. There is no needed extra help from cannabis to aid one's search for God. We are concerned that you have strayed into another spirit that is controlling you leading you to be of those YHWH Himself mentions in Micah 2:11

"Suppose a prophet full of lies would say to you, “I’ll preach to you the joys of wine and alcohol (strong spirits)!” That’s just the kind of prophet you would like!" Micah 2:11 NLT

The LORD would not permit this, nor approve of such truth about the glories of cannabis and how it has helped you to find god all done subtly in order to entice others to join your lead. The verse above reproves one of such thought. The Hebrew and Greek LXX word translated alcohol in the NLT translation of this verse refers to being intoxicated by any substance and not confined to alcohol alone. Cannabis fits the bill here.

Jesus himself declared in John 14:6 NKJV, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Your claim is that god sent you cannabis to enable your search for truth and claim that by cannabis is the way how your spirit of truth leads you to god - correct?

I don't see it quite like that. Reading the Gospel of Matthew is what led me to God. It is fair to say however that under the influence of cannabis a passionate determination grew within me to seek and find out for myself whether or not God really existed, and it was this determination that caused me to read the Gospel of Matthew. By the time I had finished reading Matthew in late January 1987 I had become convinced of the reality of God whether I was under the influence of cannabis or not, and I have been convinced of this reality ever since.

How can that line up with YHWH's own words mentioned in the above two verses?

A man must be blessed with the Spirit of truth before he can begin to reason correctly and rightly understand the written word of God, and you so far have shown only contempt for this Spirit.


…and by the way, there is nothing wrong in drinking alcohol providing you don't drink too much. In fact, there is nothing wrong in anything for as long as God is never offended, where the Spirit of truth is never offended there is no good reason why anything shouldn't be.

[1over137]

Matthew 7:15-23

A Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will [k]know them by their fruits. [l]Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will [m]know them by their fruits.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [n]miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

[1over137]

Do you think God is pleased by your proclaiming the cannabis? Would you advise searching person to take it? Would you say to him: you know in small amounts it cannot harm you and it helped me to come to God. Why not to say the whole world: people, help yourselves with cannabis, it's a good thing when taking in small amounts.

You ignored scientific links posted by B.W. pointing to harm some even if taking in small amounts.

And, when saying this:

The second is this:‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

I am asking you: do you love Rick? Do you love B.W.?