Mormon doctrine racist against blacks

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Gman
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Mormon doctrine racist against blacks

#1

Post by Gman » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:47 pm

Folks,

I've decided to open a post that addresses the racist Mormons views on blacks and how this view became fused into the Book of Mormon [BoM]. Please note this is NOT a direct attack against Mormons or the Mormon people in general. This is an attack against philosophies and Mormon doctrine...

Why am I doing this? It has come to my attention that there are many folks that are not aware of the Mormon doctrine/treatment regarding blacks. Many claim that Mormonism and Christianity are the same... Furthermore, there appears to be ignorance or cover up among the Mormon clergy around this subject. As an example, when the church was asked why there was a ban on blacks from ever becoming a part of their priesthood, the official statement from the church was "We don't know" however they say that the Lord did not instituted the ban.. I'm sorry folks but that doesn't cut it.... In fact, it infuriates me that any church or religion that professes to be Christ centered to say "I'm sorry, we don't know why we were prejudiced against blacks from entering our priesthood. We just don't know." To what I say, baloney...

So let's look at the evidence and see how this view became part of the Mormon religion...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Mormons racist against blacks

#2

Post by Gman » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 pm

First off, let's take a look at the Mormon churches stance or charge against blacks from ever joining the priesthood...

Accusation, true or false?

"Prior to 1978, Mormon leaders forbid Blacks from holding the Mormon Priesthood. In 1978, due to mounting pressure from pending lawsuits concerning racism, Spencer W. Kimball suddenly received a revelation that Blacks could now enter the temple and hold the Mormon Priesthood. If the Mormon Church had not changed its views on Black people, it would have lost its Tax-Exempt 503(c) status - as pending litigation in several states in America was proceeding.

Today the Mormon Church flatly denies that it's revelation was based on loosing its Tax-Exempt 503(c) status - however a great deal of evidence exists showing that it did."

This is in fact a TRUE statement.... Although many would deny the claim that the Church would loose it's tax exempt status if they didn't comply.. As for the 1978 ruling, NO Mormon would ever deny this claim... It is an irrefutable FACT.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Mormons racist against blacks

#3

Post by Gman » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:34 pm

But where did this prejudice stem from? This problem seems to arise from an age old belief known as "the curse of Cain," which can be the basic belief that God cursed Cain with black skin for killing his brother Abel (as a marker). Gen. 4:10—12. Now, out of respect for the Mormons, there were many Christians that had this belief too (and probably still some do)... The difference between the Christians that had this view and the Mormons, is that the Mormon's actually "fused" the curse of Cain, or curse of black skin, into their doctrine.. Please note, in the Bible, this view is nowhere present...

Let's see where in the Book of Mormon it became fused into their doctrine.. The first place we will look is the 2 book of Nephi and Moses...

2 Nephi 5:21: And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

1 Nephi 12:23: And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.

Moses 7:5-8: And the Lord said unto me: Prophesy; and I prophesied, saying: Behold the people of Canaan, which are numerous, shall go forth in battle array against the people of Shum, and shall slay them that they shall utterly be destroyed; and the people of Canaan shall divide themselves in the land, and the land shall be barren and unfruitful, and none other people shall dwell there but the people of Canaan;
For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.

Moses 7:22: And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.

More to come...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Mormons racist against blacks

#4

Post by BavarianWheels » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:00 am

.
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I lived among the Mormons for 4 years. I can attest that not only are (were) they racist against Blacks, but they're also "racist" against anyone who is not Mormon living in "their" communities or seeking employment owned by a Mormon.
.
.

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Re: Mormons racist against blacks

#5

Post by Gman » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:06 pm

BavarianWheels wrote:.
.
I lived among the Mormons for 4 years. I can attest that not only are (were) they racist against Blacks, but they're also "racist" against anyone who is not Mormon living in "their" communities or seeking employment owned by a Mormon.
.
.
Good point BW... I use to live in Idaho, and witnessed many clicks there too. Not sure if it was just them or their doctrine.. Maybe both?
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Mormons racist against blacks

#6

Post by obsolete » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:16 pm

Gman wrote:
BavarianWheels wrote:.
.
I lived among the Mormons for 4 years. I can attest that not only are (were) they racist against Blacks, but they're also "racist" against anyone who is not Mormon living in "their" communities or seeking employment owned by a Mormon.
.
.
Good point BW... I use to live in Idaho, and witnessed many clicks there too. Not sure if it was just them or their doctrine.. Maybe both?
It's interesting, but even here in Colorado I've noticed a bit of racist undertows from Mormons. I would have to say that it could very well be their doctrine.
Jesus died for ALL. End of story.

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Re: Mormons racist against blacks

#7

Post by BavarianWheels » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:14 am

obsolete wrote:
Gman wrote:
BavarianWheels wrote:.
.
I lived among the Mormons for 4 years. I can attest that not only are (were) they racist against Blacks, but they're also "racist" against anyone who is not Mormon living in "their" communities or seeking employment owned by a Mormon.
.
.
Good point BW... I use to live in Idaho, and witnessed many clicks there too. Not sure if it was just them or their doctrine.. Maybe both?
It's interesting, but even here in Colorado I've noticed a bit of racist undertows from Mormons. I would have to say that it could very well be their doctrine.
Certainly, but having lived among them, I made one friend that was a bit more open and he admitted to me that there is even a heirarchy among Mormons themselves for things like jobs. Mormons will be considered first, but the ones on top of the Mormon list are those that are seen to "fit" better with the Mormon values, one aspect being their tithing. It's very simple to find out how well a Mormon has tithed to the church...
.
.

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Re: Mormons racist against blacks

#8

Post by obsolete » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:38 am

BavarianWheels wrote:
Certainly, but having lived among them, I made one friend that was a bit more open and he admitted to me that there is even a heirarchy among Mormons themselves for things like jobs. Mormons will be considered first, but the ones on top of the Mormon list are those that are seen to "fit" better with the Mormon values, one aspect being their tithing. It's very simple to find out how well a Mormon has tithed to the church...
.
.
My wife and I had Mormon neighbors a few years back. The man had a very good job at a bank, his wife stayed home. They didn't have any kids, yet. Not long after they found out they were going to have a child, he got a nice fat promotion and raise.

It is interesting, it is like favoritism when the Mormon is concidered first. Like looking out for one another in a sence. y:-?
Jesus died for ALL. End of story.

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Re: Mormons racist against blacks

#9

Post by Gman » Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:06 pm

I had an interesting debate today on another forum regarding these verses on blacks from the Book of Mormon. Anyways the Mormons were furious with me and even called me a hate monger. :(

So what was their reply? Basically that these verses were written in 600 BC and was no longer relevant. The other responses I got (by Mormons) was that the Bible was racist too. Nice...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Mormon doctrine racist against blacks

#10

Post by openminded » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:50 pm

My Mormon friend thinks I'm bashing her religion when I quote her prophets and apostles. It gets pretty ironic.

But Mormons arguing that the Bible is racist? Did they steal that line from Richard Dawkins?

Anyways, concession seems to be the king rhetoric strategy at FAIR these days (aside from minimalization, as seen with their stance on the Book of Abraham).
I was looking for their apologetic reply to the verse in Psalms that states "from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God."
Their answer to why this is present despite his former manhood: "we don't know."
And that's the unfortunate beauty of rhetoric: winning over an audience rather than pursuing the truth.
Just as we can find a way to excuse away (almost?) any atheistic argument, Mormons will do the same to ours.

They're smart though, they attach extreme emotions to the labels they put on us, back their assertions with the undeniable belief that they were reassured by prayer (they certainly did feel affirmed by it), and we're left to explain how "wisdom" doesn't mean "knowledge." We can hardly get past how "Christian" doesn't necessarily mean "we have his NAME in our title"!

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Re: Mormon doctrine racist against blacks

#11

Post by Gman » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:28 am

openminded wrote:My Mormon friend thinks I'm bashing her religion when I quote her prophets and apostles. It gets pretty ironic.

But Mormons arguing that the Bible is racist? Did they steal that line from Richard Dawkins?
Yes, they attack the same Bible that they claim to believe in.. Ironic isn't it?
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Mormon doctrine racist against blacks

#12

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:40 pm

Gman wrote:Yes, they attack the same Bible that they claim to believe in.. Ironic isn't it?
Attacking & distorting the Bible and what it says reminds me of this:

I remember that when the USA was choosing hopefuls for the Office of the President, a certain Mormon by the name of Mitt Romney wanted the Top Job. Thankfully, Americans didn't choose Romney but you didn't really do much better in choosing the populist and mildly anti-semitic man that now presides over your country.

Were the pickings that slim or do you claim collective foolishness?

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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Re: Mormon doctrine racist against blacks

#13

Post by RickD » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:41 am

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
Gman wrote:Yes, they attack the same Bible that they claim to believe in.. Ironic isn't it?
Attacking & distorting the Bible and what it says reminds me of this:

I remember that when the USA was choosing hopefuls for the Office of the President, a certain Mormon by the name of Mitt Romney wanted the Top Job. Thankfully, Americans didn't choose Romney but you didn't really do much better in choosing the populist and mildly anti-semitic man that now presides over your country.

Were the pickings that slim or do you claim collective foolishness?

FL
FL, you said thankfully Americans didn't choose Romney. Why do you think Obama is a better President than Romney would have been?
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Re: Mormon doctrine racist against blacks

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Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:29 pm

RickD wrote:FL, you said thankfully Americans didn't choose Romney. Why do you think Obama is a better President than Romney would have been?
I didn't like the idea of a heathen President, which is why I didn't like Romney. I didn't like Obama either, especially after I found out he had a wacko anti-semite as a Pastor and had attended that Jew-hating church for over 20 years.

Were I American, I would have voted McCain/Palin.

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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Re: Mormon doctrine racist against blacks

#15

Post by RickD » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:11 am

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
RickD wrote:FL, you said thankfully Americans didn't choose Romney. Why do you think Obama is a better President than Romney would have been?
I didn't like the idea of a heathen President, which is why I didn't like Romney. I didn't like Obama either, especially after I found out he had a wacko anti-semite as a Pastor and had attended that Jew-hating church for over 20 years.

Were I American, I would have voted McCain/Palin.

FL
Yes, but Pres. Obama said he didn't really know what his pastor was preaching. :pound:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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