DonCameron wrote:Hi ttoews,
I looked at your posts back in January but there is so much information there that I don't know how to handle it. If there is something specific you want to bring to my attention I'd be happy to consider it.
well let me see if I can cut it down a bit....part of what I am saying is that I think the way in which Jesus is called Lord, God etc. is very important and that the way in which it is done makes it differ in kind (and not just degree) from how someone else such as Moses might be called a god, a savior etc. That idea is wrapped up in these bits from the "old dribble":
In Eph 4:4-6 Paul declares (among other things) that there is one Spirit, one Lord, one faith and one God and Father. Now you might want to point out that these need not be exclusive terms, after all there are many spirits, many faiths, many lords and many gods, but with respect to the Church and matters of salvation there is only one of each...these are exclusive terms from the Church's perspective.
When one takes a closer look at the one Spirit, we find the following:
a) 1 Peter 1:11 the Spirit of Christ pointed through the prophets to this salvation
b) Romans 8:9 its states that one is not controlled by the sinful nature if the Spirit of God lives in him, and then states "And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead b/c of sin, yet your spirit is alive..."
c) Gal 4:6 it states God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, but at Gal 3:5 it states God gave his Spirit to the believers
d) 2 Cor 3:17 reads " Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom..."
it seems this one Spirit is both the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God and that Paul uses those terms interchangeably....could that be b/c Jesus is God?
take a closer look at the one faith....
a) for our salvation we are directed to have faith in Jesus Christ (1 Tim 3:13, Col 1:4, Rom 3:22, Gal 2:16 and 2 Tim 3:15 the last two specify that justification and salvation come through faith in Jesus Christ )
b) yet elsewhere the faith of the church is described as faith in God ( 1 Thess 1:8, 1 Peter 1:21, Heb 6:1)
it seems this one faith is described as a faith in Jesus and then also described as a faith in God...could that be b/c Jesus is God?
Wrt the "One Lord", I do not anticipate that you would take issue with my identification of that one Lord as Jesus Christ...after all at 1 Cor 8:6 it reads "there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ". From there I note that:
a)in Rev Jesus is not only called Lord, but is also called Lord of Lords and King of Kings.(c17:14, 19:16) at 1 Tim 6:15 however, God is called the only Ruler and Lord of Lords. (contrast this with Jude 4 where Jesus is identified as our only Sovereign and Lord)....how can you have two Lord of Lords and two only Sovereigns/Rulers unless both are also God?
b)the gospels (all four actually) identify John the Baptist as the voice (from Isaiah) that is preparing the way for the Lord (Jehovah in the OT)..such that a passage dealing with Jehovah is applied to Jesus. That example is not unique.
In Joel 2:32 it states that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord (Jehovah in Joel, Kurios in the NT) will be saved. That verse from Joel is used by Peter (Acts 2:21) and by Paul (Roman 10:13). In Acts 9:14, 21 calling on a name is considered and the name in question is Jesus. In Romans 10:9 the requirement for salvation to confess "Jesus is Lord" is stated just before the quote from Joel regarding salvation for those who call on the name of the Lord (Lord = Kurios in both cases) Again a passage from the OT which refers to Jehovah is applied to Jesus.
In Isaiah 45:23 -24 it states every knee will bow before Jehovah...at Romans 14: 11 Paul references that verse and then at Phil 2:10 Paul points out that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus and every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord.
At Psalms 24:1 it is stated that the earth and everything in it is the Lord's ...at 1Cor 10:26, just after considering the Lord's supper, Paul quotes Psalms 24:1 using Kurios instead of Jehovah. If Paul didn't mean to apply Psalms 24:1 to Jesus why did he use "Kurios" for the "one Lord", for the "Lord's supper" and for the greek translation of Psalms 24:1?
In the NT then, passages about Jehovah are applied to Jesus with the greek word "Kurios" used for Lord where Jehovah was used in the OT Hebrew. Could this be b/c Jesus, the one Lord, is also Jehovah God?
There is more one could say, but hopefully this gives you an idea of what I mean when I suggest that we should not only note the titles attributed to Jesus (b/c sometimes these same titles are attributed to others), but that we should also note the manner in which these titles are applied to Christ (b/c they are not applied in that manner to anyone else but God almighty.)
