Work, ambition and career ladder - How does it relate to God

[Ashley]

Work is pretty boring; though we work everyday, it is almost tedious compared with fellowship in church where we bear no responsibility but gossipping around in excuse of prayers for others.

any thoughts?

[Canuckster1127]

Work is pretty boring; though we work everyday, it is almost tedious compared with fellowship in church where we bear no responsibility but gossipping around in excuse of prayers for others.

any thoughts?

Col 3:23-24

23 And whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord, and not for men,

24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ.

I Thes 5:17

17 Pray without ceasing.

Psalm 101:5

5 Whoever slanders his neighbor secretly
I will destroy.
Whoever has a haughty look and an arrogant heart
I will not endure.

Seems to be a matter of the heart in all 3 areas to me.

[Gman]

For what it is worth, here are my 2 cents on this... First off, we as believers SHOULD be the best at we do. That means doing everything as we were doing it unto the Lord, (as Bart has stated clearly).. I think the problem we run into however is when we set the bar too high in our careers, education, or goals...

In our secular world, it's all about status, money, education, etc... And we as Christians, I think, tend to get caught up in that trap. We want to progress, but I believe sometimes we set the bar so high that sometimes we forget WHY we are setting the bar so high. And when we set the bar so high, sometimes we forget the huge sacrifice that comes with it....

As for me, my family was a family of workaholics... There would be weeks at times I never even saw my parents because they were always busy. Now I think it is ok to work hard, but when that takes you over, I believe it is a reflection of sin in our lives... And the more possessions we own, sometimes the more our possessions POSSESS us, and then we have to work our tails off to maintain them.. That means more education, separating the families because a family member took up a job in one town while another took up another job in another, etc... My God when will it end...?

Now I'm content to say that I've got most things in my life. A house, a great career, an education, a nice car, etc... But if I would have to do that trick over again, I would say that it is NOT worth it... The headaches, the worries of paying a huge mortgage, big bills... In fact all the stuff has aged me considerably. And for what? I can't take all this junk with me to paradise...

That's all I wanted to say here... Do things in moderation and don't get caught up in the world's rat race... And if it compromises your stance with God or family, then drop it... It's just not worth it..

All the best..

G -

[Ashley]

thanks for the words; it guides me quite much, and the quotation from biblical passages and experience sharing with me are particulary enlightening.

My situation is more complicated. I am working in a company far away from my home town. Last year when I joined it the economy was stagnant and unemployment rate was high. I was hired at the rate lower than the market rate I should have deserved; (certainly the company hired me simply because of the rate lower than the market one). plus my career resume before joining the company showed like I was a disgusting job-hopper. I did have a hard time to working at any a job which hadn't been permanent. I felt my resume looked poor so I had to accept a job far from my home town cherishing a wish to live off the poor economy and I stayed in this job ever since.

These 2 years the economy bloomed. The unemployment rate plummet. I am so tempted to change my job.

The job here is pretty boring plus salary is low and unreasonable. In view of this, my employer tries his best to alleviate me from any heavy work burden (virtually I am not "allowed" to work and people are "ordered" to treat me like the paramount leader in the enterprise). He wants to keep me from quitting; in fact, my staying here with unreasonably low salary helps a lot in the enterprise's cost control.

I have been tempted to quit so much. I haven't yet though, as vast majority of others are wondering about. As long as I think of my poor-looking resume, I shun being accused of "unscrupulous job hoppers" any longer. This still keeps me in the "job", in spite of the boredom; plus the nuisance when I looked for jobs during my unemployment (for 2 years) has already disgusted me from changing jobs.

What a predicament! I dislike the accussation of my evil-looking resume, while I note that the economy is flourishing people change job more frequently it looks that I am more than a moron keeping this job for sake of mere ethical consideration to polish the resume.

I needn't do anything in the company nor be responsible for anything, and even to anyone. and money is automatically transferred to my account each month. No job satisfaction; no career prospect; but a sheer figurehead pampered employee hanging around in office. Now and then I was assigned to do some tasks which are virtually unimportant.

Does it worth? I have trouble to find any guidelines from scripture in respect of this. Certainly our God is a working God (Genesis chapter 1) and He disliked idleness (Paul's epistles). It goes against the present so-called job. Ironic of it all, I find one ethical reason for keeping this - polishing the resume to make myself look like a loyal one as contrast to the job-hoppers (which I have trouble to find scriptural passage to underpin)

Once in awhile I want to show my time working smartly to win the boss's attention; while the performance is not commensurate with what they pay me it is rather stupid to work hard or work smartly which the boss has always been showing their attitude: "no salary increment, no prospect, no promotion, but leaving me tons of thanks and pampering treatment". Worse, I find myself increasingly addicted to this sort of "earning-without-working" life.

[bizzt]

Have you told your Employer this Ashley? Say that you want to work a little more on Projects, jump in and help out on the floor more often. The Lord said to enjoy your work
Col 3:23-24

23 And whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord, and not for men,

24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ.

Do you know the Scripture above was to the Slaves of the Area? SLAVES! People that did not have freedom but were owned by their Master. And this very Scripture is given to them, Whatever you DO, Work Heartily, and for the Lord. It kind of puts what anyone is going through into perspective. BE happy in what you do, and work Heartily! Give everything you got to the Job and be Proud of what you do no matter how tough, or Boring it gets.

Have a Blessed Day

[Ashley]

Have you told your Employer this Ashley? Say that you want to work a little more on Projects, jump in and help out on the floor more often. The Lord said to enjoy your work
Col 3:23-24

23 And whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord, and not for men,

24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ.

I am thinking about this. I haven't yet told my employer; I still doubt about any possible intention of my part to seek more work; the employer exploits people quite much which deters me a bit from airing this view although it sounds like plausible.

[bizzt]

Have you told your Employer this Ashley? Say that you want to work a little more on Projects, jump in and help out on the floor more often. The Lord said to enjoy your work
Col 3:23-24

23 And whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord, and not for men,

24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ.

I am thinking about this. I haven't yet told my employer; I still doubt about any possible intention of my part to seek more work; the employer exploits people quite much which deters me a bit from airing this view although it sounds like plausible.

At least you are being truthful to him and to yourself. If it does not go the right way you will know what you have to do

[Canuckster1127]

Ashley, You live in Japan, correct?

If so, I understand somewhat that there are some issues here for you that are different than for us.

Job Jumping in the US doesn't carry quite the same stigma as it does in Japan and in general if you can present good reasons why you moved as you did, such as promotion, family considerations etc., it is not uncommon for employers to overlook this.

Japan, as I understand it still has in some sectors a very strong sense of corporate loyalty and long-term emplyment at its core and so these issues are important I understand.

I've sensed in my limited studies and knowledge of this though that Japan is loosening up some in this traditional approach.

What is your view? What would happen and what would your options be were you to leave? Are there sectors of the Japanese economy that are more open to this than others?

Bart

[Ashley]

Ashley, You live in Japan, correct?

If so, I understand somewhat that there are some issues here for you that are different than for us.

Job Jumping in the US doesn't carry quite the same stigma as it does in Japan and in general if you can present good reasons why you moved as you did, such as promotion, family considerations etc., it is not uncommon for employers to overlook this.

Japan, as I understand it still has in some sectors a very strong sense of corporate loyalty and long-term emplyment at its core and so these issues are important I understand.

I've sensed in my limited studies and knowledge of this though that Japan is loosening up some in this traditional approach.

What is your view? What would happen and what would your options be were you to leave? Are there sectors of the Japanese economy that are more open to this than others?

Bart

Yes in Osaka. I can't draw summary of thre traditional value here in Japan about the career market; I can tell from my hard work since 2001 the economy became so poor unemployment rate was so low; I got interviews with number of companies; the interviewers' accussations were tough and harsh, the most vehement of which was my "job-hopping" history. I had job-hopped a lot when the economy had been bullish and things were pragmatical of me to change job for higher salaries to improve my living conditions. The job-hunt during the time of poor economy is a night-mare to me.

The current employer intends to keep me at this low salary with minimal work load just for sake of using my professional qualifications which none of their teams had in Osaka; it is the very reason t-fhey have to hire me. They can't find anyone else in Osaka with this kind of professional qualification, other than hunting heads out of town!

Traditional value of corporate loyalty is very popular because people are old-fashioned in mindset; tonight I got off work quite earlier but still some coworkers kept staying in office pretending to be hardworking which I find a bit weird as though they have to show off some of their loyalty to corporation otherwise they would be policed even though it could just be illusion.. I told to myself: what is the use staying at office deliberately while there aren't any workload at all and no emergency or deadline to meet to finish any documents?

isn't it the same situation in US?

[Gman]

Hi Ashley, yes we do have some corporate loyalty here but not like the traditional way Japan has it. Since there are many different types of Americans, you will find differnet types of loyalties... It can be very complicated... This is how I see it. A lot of it has to do with where you were born and raised. People raised in the bigger cities for the most part are much less loyal to their companies and often job hop very frequently. In the rural areas of America, however, things don't change as fast and people tend to stick around and be much more loyal to the companies..

I think why a lot of city people are not loyal to their companies here is because their companies are not loyal to them... Job layoffs are very common here in the U.S.. You don't know when your number will get called. One day you are in, the next week you are out (depending on the economy of the company)... People who want stable jobs, usually will work in the government.

Many Americans don't understand why other countries companies are so bad to their workers... Especially China. Those people work SO hard and only make about 10 dollars a week? You would never find an American doing that kind of work for so little pay...

Hope that helps..

G -

[Ashley]

Thank for your reply Gman. I feel guilty putting all these problems of my own here; I know I should handle it myself.

I think it is tragedy people don't trust each other; I knew some people who always said how they contributed to their mother company later they got sacked and complained of the cruelty their mother company treated them while they had been working for a long time.

Here the economy has once been so poor I could see some billionaires making corporate decision to sack the staff without any social responsibility; the government seemingly can't do anything; the executives of top managemnt, after firing staff, have their salaries increase unreasonably. It was vile indeed.

the poorest thing is high unemployment rate; under these social situation, the new staff are always under the threat of being sacked but the corporate executives with power are pampered as though no one can police them. This creates miserable outcome of heightening the gradient between the rich and the poor.

May God bless it and it won't be worse off.

[Canuckster1127]

Thank for your reply Gman. I feel guilty putting all these problems of my own here; I know I should handle it myself.

I think it is tragedy people don't trust each other; I knew some people who always said how they contributed to their mother company later they got sacked and complained of the cruelty their mother company treated them while they had been working for a long time.

Here the economy has once been so poor I could see some billionaires making corporate decision to sack the staff without any social responsibility; the government seemingly can't do anything; the executives of top managemnt, after firing staff, have their salaries increase unreasonably. It was vile indeed.

the poorest thing is high unemployment rate; under these social situation, the new staff are always under the threat of being sacked but the corporate executives with power are pampered as though no one can police them. This creates miserable outcome of heightening the gradient between the rich and the poor.

May God bless it and it won't be worse off.

Ashley,

Christians are to bear one anothers burdens. You are quite welcome to post your concerns,

There's a lot here that I think is cultural and a little different from what I would be familiar with as a Canadian/American. Christ is the same however all places. The Bible has a lot to say about work. We are to give an honest days work for an honest days pay. Employers are to treat employees fairly.

We'll pray with you that God will show you a way out in what his will is.

Bart

[Gman]

Thank for your reply Gman. I feel guilty putting all these problems of my own here; I know I should handle it myself.

No problem here... I'm glad you posted what you said.

I think it is tragedy people don't trust each other;

Yes, I agree that it is sad that we don't trust each other more too..

I knew some people who always said how they contributed to their mother company later they got sacked and complained of the cruelty their mother company treated them while they had been working for a long time.

I guess that can be a problem when you try to marry a company. In the U.S. we can be loyal to our companies, be we realize that they are just companies and they can fall just like people do. It's a chance you have to take I guess..

Here the economy has once been so poor I could see some billionaires making corporate decision to sack the staff without any social responsibility; the government seemingly can't do anything; the executives of top managemnt, after firing staff, have their salaries increase unreasonably. It was vile indeed.

Sadly, that happens often here in the U.S. too.. What a lot of it amounts to is the love of money over people...

the poorest thing is high unemployment rate; under these social situation, the new staff are always under the threat of being sacked but the corporate executives with power are pampered as though no one can police them. This creates miserable outcome of heightening the gradient between the rich and the poor.

Yes, I totally agree with you here... This type of behavior is very anti-Christian. Sometimes our government can step in to help police them, but sometimes these companies have so much power and money that it can't always... Many people here would like to see more corporate cops, but the likelihood of that is slim mainly due to the high expenses. And the company's lawyers get paid HUGE amounts of money to protect them unfortunately...

[Ashley]

Gman,

Thanks for your kind words.

I am a bit confused about my career future. The employer that I am now working with can't provide any prospect on my career.

In fact they just hire me because of my professional qualification as though they lease my qualificaiton certificate, settling me somewhere in office without assigning me with responsibility. I guess he just wonders if there is any motivation to push me to work hard for him becasue in Osaka, people with my qualification are rare and they virtually can't find anyone suitable for the job except job-advertising out of Osaka; that's why I am here to be with them

These days they start to worry again, about my intention if I am to quit for somewhere else; coworkers are instructed to be nice to me; and jobs are assigned to me now and then (certainly they are causal works and I am not reportable in the employer's eyes).

Because of the lesser workload, they refuse to raise my salary their standpoint is obvious with little ground to bargain. Contracts have been signed and I doubt whether a less beneficial contract may subject me if I put forward a novation for higher salary which I don't want.

The most embarrassing is the fact that, I am willing to stay here just for earning a working trail with image of corporate loyalty in my resume; in which these 3 years contractual work here do not yield any practical experience at all except acquiring knowledge of local accents and cultural.

The dilemma I face is: does it worth to have this corporate loyalty (I was looked at as an indecent job-hopper in my resume before this job!), or does it worth to quit this job to look for a more challenging one where workload is pretty heavier, but risk of unemployment can be higher?

Grateful if there's any thought.

[Ashley]

Gman,

Thanks for your words.

I am a bit confused about my career future. The employer that I am now working with can't provide any prospect on my career.

In fact they just hire me because of my professional qualification as though they lease my qualification certificate, settling me somewhere in office without assigning me with responsibility. I guess he just wonders if there is any motivation to push me to work hard for him because in Osaka, people with my qualification are rare and they virtually can't find anyone suitable for the job except job-advertising out of Osaka; that's why I am here to be with them

These days they start to worry again, about my intention if I am to quit for somewhere else; coworkers are instructed to be nice to me; and jobs are assigned to me now and then (certainly they are causal works and I am not reportable in the employer's eyes).

Because of the lesser workload, they refuse to raise my salary their standpoint is obvious with little ground to bargain. Contracts have been signed and I doubt whether a less beneficial contract may subject me if I put forward a novation for higher salary. I don't want any novated contract which may be less beneficial to me or bound me with longer period of stay.

The most embarrassing is the fact that, I am willing to stay here just for earning a working trail with image of corporate loyalty in my resume; in which these 3 years contractual work here do not yield any practical experience at all except acquiring knowledge of local accents and cultural.

The dilemma I face is: does it worth to have this corporate loyalty (I was looked at as an indecent job-hopper in my resume before this job!), or does it worth to quit this job to look for a more challenging one where workload is pretty heavier, but risk of unemployment can be higher?

Grateful if there's any thought.


Ashley