Can we really be so stupid

Jay_7 · Post by **Jay_7** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:24 am

Theres so much evidence for old earth creation, and the only thing in the bible that doesnt make sence is the creation story, its been proved wrong, there is a chance that it is right but i have to admit it hardly makes sence, it sounds a bit weird that God created moon and the earth before the sun.... do we really believe this, or are we just believing it because we want the bible to be true? I believe in God but im finding the creation topic hard too belive..

ray · Post by **ray** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:11 am

Why is it so hard to believe that God made the moon and stars and everything else? Look at the alternative, they were just always there ( or the material from which they formed themselves ). To me both are a step of faith. You either have to believe that God formed them from nothing, they formed themselves from nothing, or that they have always existed and had no beginnning. In the scientific sense, none make any sense. That is why you have to BELIEVE one of them.

Ray

Wall-dog · Post by **Wall-dog** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:35 pm

There is actually far more to it than that. The Big Bang theory is itself a flawed theory in the sense that it can't explain why there was a big bang nor what the universe looked like prior to it. For a long time scientists wanted to hold that the universe expanded and contracted and that there have been many big bangs. We'd have a big bang and the universe would fly apart. After eons, the forces of gravity would have slowed the expansion down to the point that the universe would start to contract again. Then the Hubble Telescope allowed scientists to measure the speed of matter at the outer edges of the universe and they found that it was moving MUCH too fast to ever get pulled back. So much for the multiple big-bang..

Next they tried to make the big bang look like a chain reaction, where big bangs would be happening all over the place, and as matter got thrown into different directions by different big bangs, it would be constantly expanding and contracting from an infinite number of central points. Unfortunately scientists were able to prove that the matter in our universe is moving away from the big bang at a rate inconsistent with any outside forces (too much uniformity) and they had to throw that out.

Now scientists simply say that trying to determine what the universe looked like before the Big Bang is subjecture. That's French for "We don't know, but please don't say 'God' because we don't like that."

The more you study theories covering the origins of the universe, the more it sounds like Creation. Keep in mind that based on Creation, there was no day or night on Earth until the second day. Obviously then God didn't measure a 'day' based on a 'day' on Earth. So maybe a day to God is much longer than that, and seven days could have been a REALLY long time.

How old is the Earth? Seven billion years is the best estimate scientists have. Man hasn't been here very long yet in the grand scheme of things, so I find it very interesting that the age of the Earth as based on science is divisible by seven. Maybe a day to God is a billion years to man..

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:10 pm

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Jay_7 wrote:there is a chance that it is right but i have to admit it hardly makes sence, it sounds a bit weird that God created moon and the earth before the sun.... do we really believe this, or are we just believing it because we want the bible to be true? I believe in God but im finding the creation topic hard too belive..

Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher, than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Jay_7 wrote:Theres so much evidence for old earth creation

Jay_7 wrote:and the only thing in the bible that doesnt make sence is the creation story, its been proved wrong

I can see why your confused.

1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

God Bless.

jerickson314 · Post by **jerickson314** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:06 am

Wall-dog wrote:There is actually far more to it than that. The Big Bang theory is itself a flawed theory in the sense that it can't explain why there was a big bang nor what the universe looked like prior to it.

The theistic (and for that matter, even the deistic) view of the Big Bang does not have this problem.

Wall-dog wrote:The more you study theories covering the origins of the universe, the more it sounds like Creation. Keep in mind that based on Creation, there was no day or night on Earth until the second day. Obviously then God didn't measure a 'day' based on a 'day' on Earth. So maybe a day to God is much longer than that, and seven days could have been a REALLY long time.

Don't even need to do that. The word used in Hebrew is more flexible than "day".

Wall-dog wrote:How old is the Earth? Seven billion years is the best estimate scientists have. Man hasn't been here very long yet in the grand scheme of things, so I find it very interesting that the age of the Earth as based on science is divisible by seven. Maybe a day to God is a billion years to man..

The significance of powers of 10 is artificial, based on our system for representing numbers. Why wouldn't it be amazing if it was a multiple of 17^6 instead? In any case, the number we are given is rounded to a power of ten because that is the convention in our society. The margin of error for the age of the universe is much too large to declare the age to be the multiple of a given integer, such as 7.

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:01 am

Meh, God said 6 days. So it's 6 days.

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Note: "The evening and the morning were the sixth day"

Does that sound like billions and billions of years to you? Count backwards and it says the same thing for each of those literal 6 days of creation.

Don't put God in a box. K?

God Bless.

Jbuza · Post by **Jbuza** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:38 am

Yes didn't you know God rested from his work for a billion years?

IT is the same with man we are commanded to work six billion years before we have a "day" of rest.

jerickson314 · Post by **jerickson314** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:53 am

IRQ Conflict wrote:Don't put God in a box. K?

Don't exegete the English, OK? In Hebrew we have more flexibility. Scholars have done studies.

In fact, in the first couple days of creation we have no basis for determining "day" in any way which resembles the 24-hour conception.

ray · Post by **ray** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:45 pm

You said, "In fact, in the first couple days of creation we have no basis for determining "day" in any way which resembles the 24-hour conception."

That is only true if you do not think it is a literal day. Objectively, it is easy to translate it that way. Most times in the OT the word is a literal day and it does talk about the morning and the evening. Whether you want to accept the arguement is one thing but to so we have no basis for translating it as a literal day is incorrect.

Ray

Jay_7 · Post by **Jay_7** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:55 pm

The sun wasnt made until the 4th day so we really have no idea how much time we could be talking about here.

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:00 pm

Jay_7 wrote:The sun wasnt made until the 4th day so we really have no idea how much time we could be talking about here.

Yes we do, I'm sure the Creator of time and space knew exactly what he was saying to His people. He did not need to create the sun in order to describe the amount of time it took Him to complete the tasks on the fourth day.

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided, the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Don't know what 'your bible' says, mine says he created day and night on the first day

So many"vain imaginations", so many boxes.

R7-12 · Post by **R7-12** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:52 pm

Creation is certainly a topic of considerable depth.

For some light reading on the subject and related areas, may I suggest the following,

Creation: From Anthropomorphic Theology to Theomorphic Anthropology (No. B5)

R7-12

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:06 am

Dude! that reads like a Borg starlog.

But this may necessitate retrograde alteration by reverse climatic variation.

Sorry but my eyes glazed over after the first few paragraphs. Not to mention the fact that Id need the biggest egghead dictionary in the world to make much sense of it.

Thank the Lord, God made his word simple!

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:26 am

Another Article to read for you Light Readers

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:30 pm

Thanx bizzt, much better! and look references and stuff....weeeee

I would like to comment also on the fact that it seems anytime people think their right i.e. "the big bang" "evilution" ect, It tends to shake your faith. I know, I was raised in a Christian home and when mans (lie) was brought forth from the science community and God was kicked out of the school, it made many a stumbling block.

Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples,It is impossible but that offenses will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!

Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone, were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Then men compromise the Word of the Lord (put him in a box) to make the Word conform to mans ideals. Shame!