Is eternal security part of the gospel?

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1over137
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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#31

Post by 1over137 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:10 am

UsagiTsukino wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:52 pm
So if I accepted Jesus and sin does that mean I wasn't true in accepting Jesus?
No, it does not mean.
Even Christ's followers sin. But they do not want to sin. We do not want to sin and are sorry if it happened to us that we sinned.
Thorough explanation can be found here https://www.gotquestions.org/do-Christians-sin.html
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#32

Post by ArrowDynamic » Sun May 12, 2019 7:13 pm

What is eternal security?

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#33

Post by RickD » Mon May 13, 2019 9:14 am

ArrowDynamic wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:13 pm
What is eternal security?
It's God's promise that we are secure in Christ.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#34

Post by Philip » Mon May 13, 2019 10:10 am

It means that, for one who has placed their faith, trust and commitment to and in Christ, that He promises to give them salvation and ETERNAL life. And eternal life is both FOREVER (there can never be such a thing as temporary ETERNAL life!), and it begins at the moment of salvation - not just after our life on earth. It begins here, ends NEVER!

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#35

Post by claysmithr » Thu May 30, 2019 7:56 am

God has revealed to me that there are such things are false converts, or those who think they are saved and are not. However, God has also given me assurance of my own salvation, after seeking and knocking in this area of my life! I don't believe there is an easy answer to this most important question that has eternal consequences of the soul, and Christians shouldn't take it lightly. The only thing I could say is work out your salvation with fear and trembling, be faithful until the end, and study the bible to show yourself approved!

According to Ezekiel 18 it doesn't matter how one starts, it matters how one finishes.

The main thing God wants out of man is repentance!

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#36

Post by Stu » Thu May 30, 2019 10:42 am

The pictures start at about 3:29.
This video pretty well puts to bed the OSAS doctrine.


Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#37

Post by RickD » Thu May 30, 2019 12:25 pm

Stu wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:42 am
The pictures start at about 3:29.
This video pretty well puts to bed the OSAS doctrine.


Oh ye of little faith.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#38

Post by Stu » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:23 am

This is for Philip and Rick, continuing from the other thread.

James 5:19-20 King James Version (KJV)
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Here we see James saying that if one err's from the truth (faith) and he is bought back to the truth then his soul shall be spared from death! So if you are a Christian and err then you will experience death or hell. It is pretty clear.
2 Peter 2:18-22 King James Version (KJV)
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Here it is pretty cleat that Peter is saying that it would better to have not known the saving grace of Jesus Christ if you fall away after you have known it.
2 Peter 1:3-11 King James Version (KJV)
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Here it says that you are able to fall. You must be in something to be able to fall.
2 Peter 3:14-18 King James Version (KJV)
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Here we see Peter warning that you stay vigilant - why would he keep on warning if it's impossible to fall?
Mark 4:1-20 King James Version (KJV)
4 And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.
2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,
3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.
5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.
8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.
9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
Here we see Jesus Himself teaching that people can fall away if the word of God is not sown on "good ground" within peoples minds and hearts. If they don't take care, that initial teaching and born again experience can fall away. This happened to me.
John 15:1-6 King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Here Jesus is very clear. If you do not abide (fall away) in Jesus then you can bear no fruit. He goes on to say that if a man abides not in Him then he is cast forth, withered and cast into the fire. Pretty clear.
Matthew 25:14-30 King James Version (KJV)
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Quite clearly Jesus is explaining that any unfruitful servant shall be cast into outer darkness, or hell.
Galatians 5:19-21 King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
He doesn't discriminate between those who have been saved and those who haven't, he just says that those who act a certain way shall not inherit the kingdom of God. He is talking about habitual sin.
John 8:30-32 King James Version (KJV)
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Here Jesus clearly says that if you CONTINUE in my word then you are his disciples. Continue, not a once off.
John 6:35-37 King James Version (KJV)
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Here Jesus uses the word "cometh", in Greek it is the present tense, not a once off.
John 10:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Again, the word "follow" in Greek is present tense, to continue to do.
Hebrews 10:23-30 King James Version (KJV)
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation
, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It doesn't get much clearer then verses 26 and 29 - he that turns from Christ AFTER knowing Him shall be punished; and indeed a much worse punishment than if you had not known Jesus to begin with!
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#39

Post by RickD » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:12 am

I've he's to hear an explanation of John 3:16, by someone who thinks a believer can lose Salvation. How can someone have eternal life, if it was never eternal to begin with?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#40

Post by Stu » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:24 am

RickD wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:12 am
I've he's to hear an explanation of John 3:16, by someone who thinks a believer can lose Salvation. How can someone have eternal life, if it was never eternal to begin with?
You didn't comment on any of the scriptures I quoted.......

Like I said you are taking one verse and holding fast to that while ignoring the rest of the Bible which expands on what is said in John 3:16.

What then do you make of Hebrews 10:23-30? That is pretty clear. Read the NIV version if old English is a bit confusing. Now either the Bible is contradicting itself or Hebrews 10:23-30 is simply expanding on what was said in John.

It's like many things in life. You make a statement, and then you expand on that statement for clarity. That is what is being done here.

You are taking one sentence and continually pointing to that no matter what other scriptures are shown to you, thereby ignoring a whole lot of other scripture.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#41

Post by RickD » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:48 pm

Stu wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:24 am
RickD wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:12 am
I've he's to hear an explanation of John 3:16, by someone who thinks a believer can lose Salvation. How can someone have eternal life, if it was never eternal to begin with?
You didn't comment on any of the scriptures I quoted.......

Like I said you are taking one verse and holding fast to that while ignoring the rest of the Bible which expands on what is said in John 3:16.

What then do you make of Hebrews 10:23-30? That is pretty clear. Read the NIV version if old English is a bit confusing. Now either the Bible is contradicting itself or Hebrews 10:23-30 is simply expanding on what was said in John.

It's like many things in life. You make a statement, and then you expand on that statement for clarity. That is what is being done here.

You are taking one sentence and continually pointing to that no matter what other scriptures are shown to you, thereby ignoring a whole lot of other scripture.
Stu,
I really don't have the time to continue posting in this, if you ignore what I write, or just don't read it.

I don't take just one verse. There are many verses that prove OSAS, but nobody who believes that salvation can be lost, has an answer for John 3:16. I don't want to move on to other verses until you can answer what I wrote in regards to John 3:16.

If you don't want to address it, that's fine. This topic has been beaten to death. Literally, every verse that you think refutes OSAS, has been dealt with on this board.

For example, the verses in Hebrews 10 that you brought up, were addressed by Jac, here.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#42

Post by Philip » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:59 pm

James 5:19-20 is not referencing a saved person who has left their faith. This theoretical person is not referenced as a believer, but "anyone among you." This is referencing an unbeliever who has come amongst them, but never came all the way to faith.

Here's the other thing - what level of erring would a Christian have to do to be deemed in supposed need of "RE-salvation?" Now, there IS a level of behavior that would make me suspect a person to be unsaved - denying Christ, etc. But so as I could actually KNOW? The closest I could come is to knowing someone is currently denying Christ or the Gospel. BTW, whether we see a person we suspect is unsaved - and due to their behavior - OR whether it's a person we may have previously thought or still think them to at least already be saved, our responsibility as Christians is the same for either type of person. And that is to desire to bring them to Godly living, and to faith in Christ if the real problem is they are unsaved.

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