Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
Kenny
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Re: Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

#106

Post by Kenny » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:50 pm

RickD wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:36 pm
Kenny wrote:
Metaphysical proof? Metaphysics is philosophy. Philosophy doesn’t provide proof, it asks questions, and raises the possibility of different concepts, that may eventually lead to answers; but physical proof isn’t going to be solved via metaphysics or any other branch of philosophy. I can understand a person attaining subjective answers through the use of philosophy, but as far as getting physical proof, you aren’t going to get this through philosophy.
You are conflating evidence and proof again. Physical evidence, relates to the scientific method. Metaphysics deals with proof.

And again Kenny, there is proof for God. Just because you don't/can't understand the difference, that doesn't mean it isn't true.
Can you provide metaphysical proof of something else concerning the physical world that does not include God?
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

#107

Post by RickD » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:12 pm

Kenny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:50 pm
RickD wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:36 pm
Kenny wrote:
Metaphysical proof? Metaphysics is philosophy. Philosophy doesn’t provide proof, it asks questions, and raises the possibility of different concepts, that may eventually lead to answers; but physical proof isn’t going to be solved via metaphysics or any other branch of philosophy. I can understand a person attaining subjective answers through the use of philosophy, but as far as getting physical proof, you aren’t going to get this through philosophy.
You are conflating evidence and proof again. Physical evidence, relates to the scientific method. Metaphysics deals with proof.

And again Kenny, there is proof for God. Just because you don't/can't understand the difference, that doesn't mean it isn't true.
Can you provide metaphysical proof of something else concerning the physical world that does not include God?
I'm not a philosophy expert, but maybe the Law of Non-Contradiction.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

#108

Post by Kenny » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:05 pm

Philip wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:46 pm
Or C) the answer is something you or I are completely unaware of. I think it would be a mistake to limit the possibilities of the physical world to what you currently know of it.
The problem with that answer is, it offers nothing but imaginative speculation.
It's not an answer, it's an admission of not having an answer.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

#109

Post by Kenny » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:17 pm

RickD wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:12 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:50 pm
RickD wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:36 pm
Kenny wrote:
Metaphysical proof? Metaphysics is philosophy. Philosophy doesn’t provide proof, it asks questions, and raises the possibility of different concepts, that may eventually lead to answers; but physical proof isn’t going to be solved via metaphysics or any other branch of philosophy. I can understand a person attaining subjective answers through the use of philosophy, but as far as getting physical proof, you aren’t going to get this through philosophy.
You are conflating evidence and proof again. Physical evidence, relates to the scientific method. Metaphysics deals with proof.

And again Kenny, there is proof for God. Just because you don't/can't understand the difference, that doesn't mean it isn't true.
Can you provide metaphysical proof of something else concerning the physical world that does not include God?
I'm not a philosophy expert, but maybe the Law of Non-Contradiction.
The idea that something can't be both "X" and "not X" at the same time? But I think that falls under the category of one of the laws of logic, rather than metaphysics.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-th ... logic.html
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

#110

Post by Byblos » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:28 pm

Kenny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:17 pm
RickD wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:12 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:50 pm
RickD wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:36 pm
Kenny wrote:
Metaphysical proof? Metaphysics is philosophy. Philosophy doesn’t provide proof, it asks questions, and raises the possibility of different concepts, that may eventually lead to answers; but physical proof isn’t going to be solved via metaphysics or any other branch of philosophy. I can understand a person attaining subjective answers through the use of philosophy, but as far as getting physical proof, you aren’t going to get this through philosophy.
You are conflating evidence and proof again. Physical evidence, relates to the scientific method. Metaphysics deals with proof.

And again Kenny, there is proof for God. Just because you don't/can't understand the difference, that doesn't mean it isn't true.
Can you provide metaphysical proof of something else concerning the physical world that does not include God?
I'm not a philosophy expert, but maybe the Law of Non-Contradiction.
The idea that something can't be both "X" and "not X" at the same time? But I think that falls under the category of one of the laws of logic, rather than metaphysics.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-th ... logic.html
Lol Kenny, and what do you think the laws of logic are (if not metaphysics)? They can be summed up in two principles: 1. The law of non-contradiction and 2. The Principle of Sufficient Reason. Note that the law of excluded middle is sort of the mirror image of the law of non-contradiction but it can stand on its own as a 3rd principle.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

#111

Post by Kenny » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:50 pm

Byblos wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:28 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:17 pm
RickD wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:12 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:50 pm
RickD wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:36 pm

You are conflating evidence and proof again. Physical evidence, relates to the scientific method. Metaphysics deals with proof.

And again Kenny, there is proof for God. Just because you don't/can't understand the difference, that doesn't mean it isn't true.
Can you provide metaphysical proof of something else concerning the physical world that does not include God?
I'm not a philosophy expert, but maybe the Law of Non-Contradiction.
The idea that something can't be both "X" and "not X" at the same time? But I think that falls under the category of one of the laws of logic, rather than metaphysics.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-th ... logic.html
Lol Kenny, and what do you think the laws of logic are (if not metaphysics)?
Metaphysics is philosophy. I think there is a bit of a difference between logic and philosophy.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

#112

Post by RickD » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:28 pm

Kenny wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:50 pm
Byblos wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:28 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:17 pm
RickD wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:12 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:50 pm

Can you provide metaphysical proof of something else concerning the physical world that does not include God?
I'm not a philosophy expert, but maybe the Law of Non-Contradiction.
The idea that something can't be both "X" and "not X" at the same time? But I think that falls under the category of one of the laws of logic, rather than metaphysics.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-th ... logic.html
Lol Kenny, and what do you think the laws of logic are (if not metaphysics)?
Metaphysics is philosophy. I think there is a bit of a difference between logic and philosophy.
Why do I get the strange feeling that the ghost of Allen Funt is going to walk through my door?
:shock:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

#113

Post by Byblos » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:12 am

Kenny wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:50 pm
Byblos wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:28 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:17 pm
RickD wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:12 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:50 pm

Can you provide metaphysical proof of something else concerning the physical world that does not include God?
I'm not a philosophy expert, but maybe the Law of Non-Contradiction.
The idea that something can't be both "X" and "not X" at the same time? But I think that falls under the category of one of the laws of logic, rather than metaphysics.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-th ... logic.html
Lol Kenny, and what do you think the laws of logic are (if not metaphysics)?
Metaphysics is philosophy. I think there is a bit of a difference between logic and philosophy.
This pretty much sums up every single conversation I've ever had with you. :shakehead:
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

#114

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:10 pm

Metaphysics is philosophy. I think there is a bit of a difference between logic and philosophy.
Sure, philosophy starts were logic ends. LOL

phi·los·o·phyDictionary result for philosophy
/fəˈläsəfē/Submit
noun
the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline

The difference between WHAT we know and HOW we know it.
The complement each other, they are NOT opposites.

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Re: Proof of God: "I want PROOF!"

#115

Post by Kenny » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:13 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:10 pm
Metaphysics is philosophy. I think there is a bit of a difference between logic and philosophy.
Sure, philosophy starts were logic ends. LOL

phi·los·o·phyDictionary result for philosophy
/fəˈläsəfē/Submit
noun
the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline

The difference between WHAT we know and HOW we know it.
The complement each other, they are NOT opposites.
True; I wouldn't say they are opposites.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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