Why i believe in a young earth by ex-evolutionist Dr.Grady McMurtry

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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Stu
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Re: Why i believe in a young earth by ex-evolutionist Dr.Grady McMurtry

#16

Post by Stu » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:11 am

RickD wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:04 pm
Let's see if I can list some of the things I found wrong in only the first 4 1/2 minutes of the first video. I'll try to quote as best I can, but I wrote down the quotes as I was listening to the video. I'll put the time that each quote appeared in the video.

1) :35 mark:
He said he's a "teaching missionary talking about the truths of creation vs evolution."

He hits us right off the bat, with the cult like belief system he's going to try to indoctrinate us with. I'm not sure that Christian missionaries are supposed to teach creationism. I thought the mission of a missionary, was to preach the gospel.

2) :55 mark
"Evolutionists say that we are just the result of a cosmic accident. That we are just thinking animals without design or purpose."

Some evolutionists may say that, but it's not what all evolutionists believe. And it certainly isn't part of what evolution is about. This is a logical fallacy, called poisoning the well.

3) 1:22 mark

"...and the assumption of an old age of the earth and the universe."

Misleading. People who believe in an old earth and universe, have no evidence, but merely assume an old age?

4) 1:55 mark

"Evolutionists have no proof that the earth is millions and billions of years old. They simply claim it."

Again, misleading. Does he seriously believe that first, anyone studying the age of the earth thinks that science could possibly "prove" the age of the earth? This guy is really supposed to be a scientist, and he doesn't know that? And second, scientists simply claim that the earth is billions of years old, without evidence?

5) 3:15 mark

"Is there anything about a rock that'll tell you how old it is? Is there anything about the size, feel, shape, taste,...that will tell you how old it is?"

Does he seriously not realize how scientists measure the age of a rock?

6) 4:20 mark

"Supposedly this Big Bang occurred some perhaps 20 billion years ago..."

13.8 billion years ago. Not 20 billion. He's off by over 6 billion years, or over 40%. Not very scientific. Not very honest.

7) 4:34

He says The Bible tells us the earth was created 6,000 years ago.

And he offers no proof of his assertion, whatsoever.

Purposely misleading?

And then he goes into the idea that just because man has found a way to artificially form diamonds very quickly, that must mean that they naturally don't really take over a billion years to form.

Misleading?
1) Cult-like?? What makes you say something like that. From the get-go you are insulting him without good reason. You make that assertion about him, but YOU seem to have a healthy dislike towards creationism or something with that attitude. What's wrong with teaching creationism as part of your ministry work?

2) Again you are clearly nitpicking and have a bias against this video from the get-go - CLEARLY he is talking about atheist evolutionists who hold to that view, and not theistic evolutionists. You clearly have an issue with the man or are unnecessarily nitpicking looking for faults.

3) Many assume an OEC view and many assume an YEC view.

4) Again, there is evidence for both views, so clearly he is expressing his own views.

5) Watch further, he goes into detail.

6) Does it really matter in terms of 6000 vs 20 billion/13.8 billion years? But I'm sure he will accept the correction if offered.

7) Well that is what happens when you go off half-cocked Rick. He goes into detail further in the video for why the earth is 6 000 years old. I suggest you watch the whole presentation before accusing someone of being misleading......

8 ) Well it certainly is proof that diamonds could take less time to form and that they don't have to take millions of years to form.
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theophilus (Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:41 am)
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Re: Why i believe in a young earth by ex-evolutionist Dr.Grady McMurtry

#17

Post by RickD » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:59 pm

Stu wrote:
1) Cult-like?? What makes you say something like that.
http://www.oldearth.org/cult.htm
1. Convince followers that everyone else is wrong.
2. Misrepresent God's Word and change what the Bible really means.
3. Mix in just enough truth to make the lies believable
4. Other teachings present a danger to the religion or society as a whole.
5. Warn followers to never listen to other doctrines or they will be deceived.
Stu wrote:
From the get-go you are insulting him without good reason.
Not insulting him. I'm giving an honest critique of what he said in the video, like you asked from me.
Stu wrote:
You make that assertion about him, but YOU seem to have a healthy dislike towards creationism or something with that attitude.
When people come out of cult-like systems, because they realize that what they believed is wrong, then yes, I'd say that a dislike for that cult-like system is healthy.
Stu wrote:
What's wrong with teaching creationism as part of your ministry work?
I explained what's wrong, already. He claims to be a missionary. Christian Missionaries are supposed to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ, to those in their mission field. They're not supposed to preach pseudoscience and unbiblical creation beliefs.
Stu wrote:
2) Again you are clearly nitpicking and have a bias against this video from the get-go - CLEARLY he is talking about atheist evolutionists who hold to that view, and not theistic evolutionists. You clearly have an issue with the man or are unnecessarily nitpicking looking for faults.
I thought that you posted the videos so people would view them, and give their opinions about the content. Critiquing is not nitpicking. And he didn't differentiate between different types of evolutionists. He just used the term "evolutionist".
Stu wrote:
3) Many assume an OEC view and many assume an YEC view
Again, saying that evolutionists "assume" an old age for the earth and universe, means by definition of "assume", that evolutionists believe in an old earth and universe, without evidence. That's just misleading.
Stu wrote:
4) Again, there is evidence for both views, so clearly he is expressing his own views.
That's not what he said! He said that evolutionists have no "proof". He didn't say "evidence". As a self proclaimed Dr., he should know the difference between proof and evidence. And saying that evolutionists just "claim" the earth is millions and billions of years old, without evidence is dishonest.
Stu wrote:
5) Watch further, he goes into detail
I'm sure he does. His knowledge of pseudoscience is boundless.
Stu wrote:
6) Does it really matter in terms of 6000 vs 20 billion/13.8 billion years? But I'm sure he will accept the correction if offered.
I highly doubt it. Cult leaders don't like to be corrected.
Stu wrote:
7) Well that is what happens when you go off half-cocked Rick. He goes into detail further in the video for why the earth is 6 000 years old. I suggest you watch the whole presentation before accusing someone of being misleading......
No Stu. He's misleading, because the Bible does not claim that the earth is 6,000 years old.
Stu wrote:
8 ) Well it certainly is proof that diamonds could take less time to form and that they don't have to take millions of years to form.
And instead of dealing with the evidence that diamonds take a billion plus years to form in nature, he proves that diamonds can be formed quickly, when man is involved. In other words, he does nothing with the actual evidence that shows an old earth.

For anyone with ears to hear, and eyes to see, I ask you to take a look at these common cult tactics, and it will be clear what's going on.
1. Convince followers that everyone else is wrong.
2. Misrepresent God's Word and change what the Bible really means.
3. Mix in just enough truth to make the lies believable
4. Other teachings present a danger to the religion or society as a whole.
5. Warn followers to never listen to other doctrines or they will be deceived.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



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Re: Why i believe in a young earth by ex-evolutionist Dr.Grady McMurtry

#18

Post by Philip » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:25 pm

I will say this about Christians and their age of the Creation views: Whenever you see someone obsessed or overtly aggressive on this subject - to the point that they use it as almost a litmus test as to whether others are a Christian or not, or that assert one's views on this topic reveals how seriously they take their faith, or God's Word, or it's accuracy - well, it's a big problem and they are almost certainly creating unnecessary divisions, hard feelings, or arguments. In my experience, VERY few who are exceptionally vocal about this issue know how to show grace or tend to care very much about the people they are dialoging with - as what they really care more about is their pride and winning an argument at all costs. And I would say that this is true whether a person like this is a YEC or OEC, or a theistic evolutionist. Doesn't matter. I've know a lot of truly authentic Christians who have held each of these views. What Christians hold in common (their mutual faith in Christ and belief that He is the Creator) tends to be FAR more important than our points of disagreement. And discussing similar kinds of issues should have this same caution - Reformed Theology/Calvinism/Arminianism, Last Days timelines, etc.

But many of these issues DO have key levels of importance, and with mature, grace-filled conversations, they can be rewarding. It took me a very long time to learn not to be TOO aggressive about my OLD earth (and other) views and to see they aren't near the big honking deal I once thought they were. What matters is that we believe in and follow Jesus, and believe that Scripture is His trustworthy word, and to encourage each other to focus on our relationship with Christ. And so we just need to use maturity in how we debate these issues, and what degree of importance each actually is. And a huge part of having civil conversations is to not assume what another person believes, and it's usually best to ask clarifying questions as to what you believe their position to be - even if you think you know it.

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Re: Why i believe in a young earth by ex-evolutionist Dr.Grady McMurtry

#19

Post by RickD » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:01 pm

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

It's wrong when we Christians hold a belief about something that leads to an us against them mentality. When we've reached the point of pitting ourselves against anyone who doesn't hold to our beliefs, we've already lost sight of our real purpose in life. We are to love God first, and love our neighbor. How can we love our unbelieving neighbor, if we consider him our enemy, just because he doesn't hold to our dogmatic interpretation of scripture?

And how can we love our brother in Christ, if we continually misrepresent what he says and believes?


If it walks like a cult, talks like a cult, and smells like a cult, it's probably a cult.
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Philip (Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:00 pm)
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Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



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Why i believe in a young earth by ex evolutionist Dr Grady McMurtry

#20

Post by Warnerchorb » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:42 am

We were not present at major events in ancient history, but through logical analysis and historical evidence, reliable conclusions are reached about what happened in the past. Yet, young-earth creationists disagree. They firmly state that we cannot be sure about historical events because were were not there in person to see it happen. Although it would not be too challenging to refute the views of the young-earth creationists I think, I often wondered how sure we this generation can be of the validity of records on ancient people living for 700, 900 even a 1000 years. Maybe they calculated a year different than we do today? Maybe reference was made to visitors from another solar system? Or maybe people really grew that old? I would love to hear the opinion of fellow forum members on the views of the young-earth creationists.

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Re: Why i believe in a young earth by ex-evolutionist Dr.Grady McMurtry

#21

Post by Philip » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:14 pm

Welcome, Warnerchorb!

I see you're not a Christian. So, what drives your interest in the age of the earth and universe? I would assume you take an old earth view, as do most you will encounter here do. And theistically speaking, whether the earth is ancient or very young, it doesn't answer the far more important issue of the origins of the universe.

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