Metaphysics does not provide facts. It's just a branch of philosophy that provides a way of looking at things. Many may use it to provide subjective answers to real world problems, but we're talking about philosophy here; not facts.RickD wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:58 pmThe 5 ways of Thomas Aquinas.Kenny wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:01 pmHow are you defining "metaphysics" and how does it prove a point I brushed aside?RickD wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 amMy point is that metaphysics proves the points that you are brushing aside. Either you don't understand metaphysics, or you refuse to understand, because you may find out something you're trying to avoid.Kenny wrote:
I didn’t address metaphysics. You lost me on that one bro!
My problem with Aquinas 5 ways, is it basically says from our observation; all things that began to move require something else that moved it. But that something else must have been moved by something else, which was moved by something else. etc. etc. It also makes the assumption that everything in the Universe began to move.
Now since we can’t have an infinite number of “something else's” that act as a prior mover, we have to conclude an original mover that didn’t need to be moved by something else, that chose to move on his own; which suggest this original mover had to be more than an inanimate object, but capable of thought, decision making etc. etc. It also makes the assumption that this something else cannot be within the Universe because we already made the leap that everything within the Universe began to move, so this something else has to be outside the Universe.
Then it makes the leap that this unmoved mover is what Christians call God.
My problem with this logic is that it assumes everything in the Universe actually began to move; dismissing the possibility that some things were never stagnant but has always been moving within the Universe.
Of course this entire argument falls apart if we assume some things within the Universe don’t need an original mover, because they have always been moving.
He also makes the same type of arguments for cause, contingency, and other stuff that doesn’t come to mind right now, but they use the same basic concept.