Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
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RickD
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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#46

Post by RickD » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:44 am

Kenny wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:36 pm
RickD wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:18 pm
Kenny wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:19 pm
Philip wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:19 pm
What Big Bang cosmology reveals is, a mere moment before the Big Bang began, there was NOTHING physical in existence! And in under 3 minutes, extraordinary things of stunning designs immediately appeared, including elementary particles, anti-matter, matter, neutrinos, protons, neutrons, and electrons, and the nucleosynthesis process began.
I have never heard of anything scientific that supports this claim. From what I've heard as far back as science can go is to the singularity that expanded to become what is known as the big bang. Do you have anything other than your word to back any of this up?
Kenny,

In the Big Bang Theory, all matter was formed as a result of the Big Bang itself. This isn't even controversial.
No; The Big Bang theory starts with the singularity (all matter in existence) already existing. When that singularity/matter expanded to become what we now know as the Universe, this is known as the Big Bang theory. What happened prior to this event is completely unknown and a matter of pure speculation.
https://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html
https://www.quora.com/What-was-before-t ... simple-way
I stand corrected. Apparently there is quite a bit of disagreement on the issue of whether there was a singularity that contained matter. From my understanding, the singularity was strictly energy, not matter. And matter didn't form until after the universe began to form. How can matter exist with no time-space? Two properties of matter are mass, and volume. Matter cannot exist without somewhere for it to exist.

I'm starting to wonder if some people are trying to explain something scientifically, that cannot be explained scientifically.
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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#47

Post by Stu » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:40 am

Sounds like a miracle to me.
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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#48

Post by RickD » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:40 am

Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:40 am
Sounds like a miracle to me.
At the very least, supernatural.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#49

Post by Philip » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:31 am

While no one truly knows what Singularity was or what it might have contained, it could not have created itself. Even if some elemental form of matter existed within it, without some source and Super Intelligence guiding it, that matter and its resulting crucial elements could not have instantly assembled itself into such immensely complex and interactive components of breathtaking designs of such precise functionalities - all working together in stupendous harmony and on an unimaginable scale! What harnessed any existing energy with such power and precise applications / made things made move in astoundingly precise synchronizations? The Big Bang produced, not random things in some chaotic mass explosion, but a controlled expansion of EXACTLY the necessary things to produce a universe that could support complex and intelligent life forms.

So, even IF singularity contained matter, it required a great Intelligence to assemble and harness just the right things needed to produce the building blocks and guidance necessary to build the universe. And this Intelligence created and designed these many incredible things, which did not previously exist, and set their functions into the complex motions and interactions necessary for the universe to continuously run, and these unbelievable things were created in mere minutes.

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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#50

Post by 1over137 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:31 pm

5 min video

But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#51

Post by Kenny » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:43 pm

1over137 wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:31 pm
5 min video

I noticed the video describes the Big Bang as a violent explosion. The big bang theory describes the singularity as expanding; not exploding. Probably just an oversight.

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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#52

Post by Kenny » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:45 pm

Philip wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:31 am
While no one truly knows what Singularity was or what it might have contained, it could not have created itself.
If matter always existed, it wouldn't need to create itself.

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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#53

Post by Philip » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:55 pm

A) Cosmologists and physicists do not believe matter always has existed, and even if it did, B) Only a Super Intelligence of great power could have so brilliantly organized and designed its amazing components so spectacularly and so quickly, and to function with such incredible precision, on such a vast scale.

AND a thing either has intelligent capability or it was created with such capability by another intelligent source. Matter alone has no intelligent capability to do things only an intelligent entity can. And non-intelligent things have no capability of developing or obtaining intelligence - they cannot LEARN - not by themselves!

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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#54

Post by RickD » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:22 pm

Kenny wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:45 pm
Philip wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:31 am
While no one truly knows what Singularity was or what it might have contained, it could not have created itself.
If matter always existed, it wouldn't need to create itself.
This is now metaphysical , not science.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#55

Post by Kenny » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:50 pm

Philip wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:55 pm
A) Cosmologists and physicists do not believe matter always has existed, and even if it did, B) Only a Super Intelligence of great power could have so brilliantly organized and designed its amazing components so spectacularly and so quickly, and to function with such incredible precision, on such a vast scale.
Cosmologists and Physicists don’t believe in a Super Intelligence of great power that could have so brilliantly organized everything either!
If you’re going to be skeptical their expertise when they dismiss your super intelligence, why can’t you apply that same skepticism when they dismiss the claim that matter has always existed? Sounds like you’re kinda picking and choosing when you wanna believe them.

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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#56

Post by Kenny » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:51 pm

RickD wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:22 pm
Kenny wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:45 pm
Philip wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:31 am
While no one truly knows what Singularity was or what it might have contained, it could not have created itself.
If matter always existed, it wouldn't need to create itself.
This is now metaphysical , not science.
What does metaphysics have to do with my claim?

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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#57

Post by RickD » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:36 am

Kenny wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:51 pm
RickD wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:22 pm
Kenny wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:45 pm
Philip wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:31 am
While no one truly knows what Singularity was or what it might have contained, it could not have created itself.
If matter always existed, it wouldn't need to create itself.
This is now metaphysical , not science.
What does metaphysics have to do with my claim?
It's beyond the scope of science. No way to prove scientifically, if matter has always existed.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#58

Post by Kenny » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:46 am

RickD wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:36 am
Kenny wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:51 pm
RickD wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:22 pm
Kenny wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:45 pm
Philip wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:31 am
While no one truly knows what Singularity was or what it might have contained, it could not have created itself.
If matter always existed, it wouldn't need to create itself.
This is now metaphysical , not science.
What does metaphysics have to do with my claim?
It's beyond the scope of science. No way to prove scientifically, if matter has always existed.
Yeah it is beyond the scope of science. But IF (and that's a big if) matter has always existed, I wouldn't need to create itself. Agree?

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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#59

Post by RickD » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:53 am

Kenny wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:46 am
RickD wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:36 am
Kenny wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:51 pm
RickD wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:22 pm
Kenny wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:45 pm

If matter always existed, it wouldn't need to create itself.
This is now metaphysical , not science.
What does metaphysics have to do with my claim?
It's beyond the scope of science. No way to prove scientifically, if matter has always existed.
Yeah it is beyond the scope of science. But IF (and that's a big if) matter has always existed, I wouldn't need to create itself. Agree?
I wouldn't say that it doesn't need to create itself. I'd say that if something always exists, it cannot create itself. If something exists eternally(always existed) then it wasn't created.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is Christianity and Belief in God RATIONAL?

#60

Post by Stu » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:00 am

Tough to get your head around that one...
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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