China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#31

Post by Stu » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:16 am

State Tells Christian Filmmakers: Make Same-Sex Marriage Films or Spend 90 Days in Jail

Two Christian filmmakers appeared before the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Paul Tuesday to challenge Minnesota state law which they say illegally forces them to produce and create films expressing messages that contradict their core beliefs.

Telescope Media Group owners Carl and Angel Larsen have already been threatened with hefty fines and up to 90 days in jail if they choose to disregard the law.

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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#32

Post by edwardmurphy » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:20 am

Ok, right off the bat I'm suspicious. If I'm reading this right there's a law in Minnesota saying that Christian filmmakers are required to make movies about same-sex marriage. So any filmmaker who happens to be a Christian has to spend their own time and money making a movie about a same-sex marriage or go to jail. That's some terrifying overreach by the State!

But wait...

Why on Earth would the State of Minnesota require all filmmakers to make a movie about same sex marriage? Apart from being unconstitutional, what's the point? How many movies about same-sex marriage do we need? And since when does the government care about what kinds of films private film makers choose to produce? This makes no sense...

Well, one thing's for sure - anybody who read the headline but not the article would think that things have gone totally off the rails in Minnesota and probably run straight to their nearest social media outlet to raise the alarm.

Maybe I should dig a bit deeper...
Stu wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:16 am
Two Christian filmmakers appeared before the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Paul Tuesday to challenge Minnesota state law which they say illegally forces them to produce and create films expressing messages that contradict their core beliefs.

Telescope Media Group owners Carl and Angel Larsen have already been threatened with hefty fines and up to 90 days in jail if they choose to disregard the law.
Hmmm...

Interesting pull, Stu. That selection aligns well with the title. I wonder what else is in there...
The Larsens want to enter the wedding industry. However, the state's Human Rights Act stipulates if the couple creates films celebrating their Christian beliefs about marriage – that marriage is between one man and one woman, they must also create films about marriage that violate their beliefs, including films promoting same-sex marriages.
Wait, what? They're thinking of becoming wedding videographers, but - reading between the lines - there's a law stating that if they choose to provide that service then they have to treat all of their prospective clients equally, regardless of their sexual orientation...? Oh no, those poor, poor bigots!

So maybe a better title would be Filmmakers - Currently in No Legal Jeopardy Whatsoever - Preemptively Sue State Over Anti-Discrimination Law that They Might One Day Choose to Violate if They Decide to Move into the Wedding Videography Business...? Not quite as flashy, but a good deal more accurate, huh?

Well, you already know where I stand on the matter of using religion to justify discrimination. I also lived in Minnesota for about 12 years so, unlike you, I know the place and the people pretty well. Minneapolis is a very liberal city that prides itself on being welcoming to everyone, regardless of their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. The city also happens to have an overwhelmingly Christian population. Saint Paul is a bit more conservative, but still welcoming to all. If you go Outstate (meaning outside of Minneapolis-Saint Paul and the surrounding suburbs) people are more socially conservative and also overwhelmingly Christian. There isn't even a hint of anti-Christian sentiment coming from the people or the government anywhere in the State. Over the years a few people got a bit salty when they learned that I was an atheist, but that's not the kind of hostility that interests you so I won't go into it.

Anyway, it seems to me that if the couple in question doesn't want their neighbors to receive equal treatment under the law then they should vote with their feet and move to Alabama.

I'd also like to add that putting this non-story about the non-persecution of the privileged majority in a thread about the very real religious persecution that's taking place in China is inappropriate and distasteful.
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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#33

Post by Stu » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:16 am

Coming to America.

WAR ON CHRISTIANITY: China plans to rewrite the Bible to include Buddhist teachings, which would infuse worship songs with Chinese elements

To better control the growth and influence of Christianity, the Chinese government plans to incorporate Buddhist scripture and Confucian teachings into the Bible and edit worship songs to include Chinese characteristics, the head of a persecution watchdog has revealed.

The Rev. Bob Fu, founder of the persecution watchdog organization China Aid, told Congress that the Three Self Patriotic Movement and the Chinese Christian Council (China’s state-sanctioned Protestant bodies) have developed a five-year plan on “promoting the Sinicization of Christianity,” The Christian Post reports.

The plan, finalized at a meeting this March, proposes “cultivating and implementing the socialist core values” and will be supervised by the national religious affairs bureau. “Every province, autonomous region and municipality’s TSPM and CCC seminaries and churches will cooperate with it,” according to Fu.

To “sinicize” (bring under Chinese control) Christianity, the government plans to “retranslate” the Old Testament and provide new commentary to the New Testament, Fu revealed.

“The plan made it clear that ‘Sinicization of Christianity’ means to change ‘Christianity in China’ into ‘Chinese Christianity,'” he explained. [The plan] emphasized that ‘the heart and soul of Christianity’s Sinicization is to Sincize the Christian theology,’ and even proposing to ‘re-translate the Bible or re-write biblical commentaries.'”

A retranslation would be a summary of the Old Testament with some Buddhist scripture and Confucian teachings and new commentary for the New Testament, Fu said.

“There are outlines that the new Bible should not look westernized and [should look] Chinese and reflect Chinese ethics of Confucianism and socialism,” Fu told CP. “The Old Testament will be messed up. The New Testament will have new commentaries to interpret it.”

Fu added that the five-year plan advocates for “incorporating the Chinese elements into church worship services, hymns and songs, clergy attire, and the architectural style of church buildings.”

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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#34

Post by edwardmurphy » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:18 pm

Stu wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:16 am
Coming to America.
The Chinese are coming here to Sinicize Christianity? Or is it that American liberals or socialists or something are going to rewrite the Bible? Or that the new Christianity that the Chinese apparently plan to create is going to take America by storm, kind of like the Beatles did?

Stu, you live on the other side of the planet, you know jack about my country, and what you think you know comes from laughably unreliable sources. I know you don't see any of that as a problem, but you really ought to. Maybe you should limit your political commentary to events happening in South Africa.
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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#35

Post by Stu » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:56 pm

edwardmurphy wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:18 pm
Stu wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:16 am
Coming to America.
The Chinese are coming here to Sinicize Christianity? Or is it that American liberals or socialists or something are going to rewrite the Bible? Or that the new Christianity that the Chinese apparently plan to create is going to take America by storm, kind of like the Beatles did?

Stu, you live on the other side of the planet, you know jack about my country, and what you think you know comes from laughably unreliable sources. I know you don't see any of that as a problem, but you really ought to. Maybe you should limit your political commentary to events happening in South Africa.
You're not a Christian, so you don't believe in things like the Tribulation, the Mark of the Beast, etc. (where such events will occur) so maybe you should limit your commentary to things other than religious topics :roll:
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#36

Post by edwardmurphy » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:54 am

I am. We're talking about politics and current events. You're not making some scriptural argument, you're claiming that something that's happening in China - the government attempting to merge Christianity with Party ideology - will soon happen here. As an American who actually pays attention to politics and current events I'm telling you that your claim isn't based in reality.
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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#37

Post by RickD » Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:44 am

Stu wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:56 pm
edwardmurphy wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:18 pm
Stu wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:16 am
Coming to America.
The Chinese are coming here to Sinicize Christianity? Or is it that American liberals or socialists or something are going to rewrite the Bible? Or that the new Christianity that the Chinese apparently plan to create is going to take America by storm, kind of like the Beatles did?

Stu, you live on the other side of the planet, you know jack about my country, and what you think you know comes from laughably unreliable sources. I know you don't see any of that as a problem, but you really ought to. Maybe you should limit your political commentary to events happening in South Africa.
You're not a Christian, so you don't believe in things like the Tribulation, the Mark of the Beast, etc. (where such events will occur) so maybe you should limit your commentary to things other than religious topics :roll:
So, since Edwardmurphy is not a Christian, he shouldn't post in any topics regarding religion?

Stu,

Should we expect you to hold yourself to the same standard? Since you're not American, can we expect you to limit your commentary to things other than American politics?

Any member of this forum is free to post on any topic that he/she wants.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#38

Post by B. W. » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:31 am

Greetings all,

For most of you know me as B. W. here on this forum. I have helped many of you on this forum in many different ways. Some, I helped save their marriages and falling into adultery. Others, from suicidal thoughts. Others have mentioned to me how they have been strengthened in his or faith and helping with advice and praying thru tragic and difficult times. Others have mentioned how I helped them gain understanding in what it means to be a Christian. There have been visitors coming on line to this forum and become born again as evidenced from many privet messages, personal emails, and comments by many visitors, members, and past members.

Despite this, the face of the forum has changed. With that and much sadness I decided to resign as moderator as well as participating here. I hold no ill will against anyone here. So, do not think that.

If you would like to contact me or have questions concerning any post here, feel free to email me at:

bwmelvin1@gmail.com

God bless and with that I ask the Lord to bless this forum and the folks on it. In Jesus Name…


Sincerely – Bryan W Melvin
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(by B. W. Melvin)

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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#39

Post by edwardmurphy » Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:07 pm

Huh...

Strange as this may sound, I'm sincerely sorry to hear it. I've always kind of assumed that eventually you and I would find common ground on something. Lord knows that that would have been, but something. Apparently that's not the case. That's too bad.

Take care, B.W.
If you're accustomed to privilege equality may feel like oppression.

Before you ask why ask if.

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#40

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:48 pm

This reminds me of that missionary who was killed by those stone age islanders near India.
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-u ... bf074f0fc6

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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#41

Post by Stu » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:31 am

RickD wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:44 am
Stu wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:56 pm
edwardmurphy wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:18 pm
Stu wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:16 am
Coming to America.
The Chinese are coming here to Sinicize Christianity? Or is it that American liberals or socialists or something are going to rewrite the Bible? Or that the new Christianity that the Chinese apparently plan to create is going to take America by storm, kind of like the Beatles did?

Stu, you live on the other side of the planet, you know jack about my country, and what you think you know comes from laughably unreliable sources. I know you don't see any of that as a problem, but you really ought to. Maybe you should limit your political commentary to events happening in South Africa.
You're not a Christian, so you don't believe in things like the Tribulation, the Mark of the Beast, etc. (where such events will occur) so maybe you should limit your commentary to things other than religious topics :roll:
So, since Edwardmurphy is not a Christian, he shouldn't post in any topics regarding religion?

Stu,

Should we expect you to hold yourself to the same standard? Since you're not American, can we expect you to limit your commentary to things other than American politics?

Any member of this forum is free to post on any topic that he/she wants.
Huh, you're the sarcasm expert yet you clearly missed mine. And you ignored the part where Ed said I shouldn't comment on anything American, yet you tell me where to get off :?

Ed was the one who said I shouldn't comment on anything American since I'm not American. Read properly next time.

And further, I was the one who argued earlier in the thread that anyone should be able to comment on anything, given we live in a connected world these days.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#42

Post by RickD » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:47 am

Stu wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:31 am
RickD wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:44 am
Stu wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:56 pm
edwardmurphy wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:18 pm
Stu wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:16 am
Coming to America.
The Chinese are coming here to Sinicize Christianity? Or is it that American liberals or socialists or something are going to rewrite the Bible? Or that the new Christianity that the Chinese apparently plan to create is going to take America by storm, kind of like the Beatles did?

Stu, you live on the other side of the planet, you know jack about my country, and what you think you know comes from laughably unreliable sources. I know you don't see any of that as a problem, but you really ought to. Maybe you should limit your political commentary to events happening in South Africa.
You're not a Christian, so you don't believe in things like the Tribulation, the Mark of the Beast, etc. (where such events will occur) so maybe you should limit your commentary to things other than religious topics :roll:
So, since Edwardmurphy is not a Christian, he shouldn't post in any topics regarding religion?

Stu,

Should we expect you to hold yourself to the same standard? Since you're not American, can we expect you to limit your commentary to things other than American politics?

Any member of this forum is free to post on any topic that he/she wants.
Huh, you're the sarcasm expert yet you clearly missed mine. And you ignored the part where Ed said I shouldn't comment on anything American, yet you tell me where to get off :?

Ed was the one who said I shouldn't comment on anything American since I'm not American. Read properly next time.

And further, I was the one who argued earlier in the thread that anyone should be able to comment on anything, given we live in a connected world these days.
Ok. Thank you.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#43

Post by edwardmurphy » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:05 am

Stu wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:31 am
Ed was the one who said I shouldn't comment on anything American since I'm not American. Read properly next time.
I didn't say that you shouldn't comment on anything American, I said that you were talking out of your backside and that talking out of one's backside was bad practice.

I can talk about politics in the United States because I know about politics in the United States. I can also talk about the Bible and scriptural interpretation, but I choose not to because I don't know much about that. See how that works?
If you're accustomed to privilege equality may feel like oppression.

Before you ask why ask if.

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#44

Post by Stu » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:03 am

edwardmurphy wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:05 am
Stu wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:31 am
Ed was the one who said I shouldn't comment on anything American since I'm not American. Read properly next time.
I didn't say that you shouldn't comment on anything American, I said that you were talking out of your backside and that talking out of one's backside was bad practice.

I can talk about politics in the United States because I know about politics in the United States. I can also talk about the Bible and scriptural interpretation, but I choose not to because I don't know much about that. See how that works?
I really should just ignore you but here goes...

So you have no opinion in the Uyghur in China being rounded up in camps.
You have no opinion on the Rohingya being massacred in Myanmar.
You have no opinion on the crisis in Yemen.
So you have no opinion on the desperation of the people in Zimbabwe and Venezuela due to inept governments.
You have no opinion on the civil war in Syria.
You have no opinion on the caravan of people stuck in Mexico.
You have no opinion on the civil wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
You have no opinion on the millions of people flooding Europe.
You have no opinion on Brexit.

You have no opinion on anything other than what goes on within the borders of the USA? Wow you are one ignorant person.

See how that works?
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Re: China demolishes hundreds of churches and confiscates Bibles during a crackdown on Christianity

#45

Post by edwardmurphy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:43 am

I feel like you're deliberately missing my point.

Of course I have opinions about the things you listed. I'm sure that you do as well. That's not my point.

My point is that you're a South African posting in a forum where the majority of the regulars are American, and I've never seen you ask a single question about life in America. Instead you cherry pick articles about weird, atypical situations, written by far right pundits and inform us that they're the norm. How the hell would you know? Or you post articles about religious persecution in China and your only thought on the matter is that soon it will be happening here. Stu, that's a ridiculous thing to say, and you'd know that if you actually lived here.

I can't tell if you're just trolling me or if you actually believe the things that you're writing. It's silly either way.

Maybe if you post an article about China you should then talk about China, rather than making a preposterous statement about the United States. Maybe you should talk about some of the things you listed in your last post, but refrain from stating (incorrectly) that they represent the left's vision for life in America. Maybe you should tell us about life in South Africa. Maybe you should ask a question about America now and then, rather than lecturing a bunch of Americans about their own country.

Just some thoughts.
If you're accustomed to privilege equality may feel like oppression.

Before you ask why ask if.

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

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