Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

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LittleHamster
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Re: Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

#31

Post by LittleHamster » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:05 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:37 pm
LittleHamster wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:05 pm
RickD wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:55 pm
Fwiw,

The death penalty had Christ killed. And that was a case of someone innocent being killed.
Hey, that was God sacrificing himself. Don't suppose anyone here wants to have a go ?
(sorry, couldn't resist)

edit: But would you view it as a 'just' execution ?
To be particular, someone giving up (sacrificing) their life isn't the same as killing (sacrificing) themselves. ;) But otherwise, I hear what you're saying.

Capital punishing is a just penalty in life-for-life. Whether punishments can be appropriately measured out is another thing. I'd add that Christian soteriology can't be applied to social law, they're two different things. As for governing of a society, I don't have much faith in humanity, yet whatever restrains evil while increasing the good ought to be endorsed.
So, for all the Christians here then, do we agree (as Philip pointed out) on this one point that, according to scripture, we are to follow and be bound by what the governing law's of the land say we can, can't and should do ? Even though those laws may be (in your eyes) wrong, immoral, unethical, hurtful, sinful or a tad.......Brutal!!! ? (I'll assume you all agree if no one replies)


(as an aside, one could always run for office and change the law if one does not like it.....happens all the time :-) )
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Re: Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

#32

Post by Philip » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:46 pm

God's principals always trump man's laws.

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Re: Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

#33

Post by neo-x » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:54 pm

LittleHamster wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:05 pm
Kurieuo wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:37 pm
LittleHamster wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:05 pm
RickD wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:55 pm
Fwiw,

The death penalty had Christ killed. And that was a case of someone innocent being killed.
Hey, that was God sacrificing himself. Don't suppose anyone here wants to have a go ?
(sorry, couldn't resist)

edit: But would you view it as a 'just' execution ?
To be particular, someone giving up (sacrificing) their life isn't the same as killing (sacrificing) themselves. ;) But otherwise, I hear what you're saying.

Capital punishing is a just penalty in life-for-life. Whether punishments can be appropriately measured out is another thing. I'd add that Christian soteriology can't be applied to social law, they're two different things. As for governing of a society, I don't have much faith in humanity, yet whatever restrains evil while increasing the good ought to be endorsed.
So, for all the Christians here then, do we agree (as Philip pointed out) on this one point that, according to scripture, we are to follow and be bound by what the governing law's of the land say we can, can't and should do ? Even though those laws may be (in your eyes) wrong, immoral, unethical, hurtful, sinful or a tad.......Brutal!!! ? (I'll assume you all agree if no one replies)


(as an aside, one could always run for office and change the law if one does not like it.....happens all the time :-) )
There are always unjust laws. E.g in many communist regimes, it is unlawful to read/preach the bible or pray publicly, but people do break these laws often and get punished. Should they obey it because the bible says so? I am not sure entirely.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

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LittleHamster
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Re: Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

#34

Post by LittleHamster » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:20 pm

neo-x wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:54 pm
LittleHamster wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:05 pm
Kurieuo wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:37 pm
LittleHamster wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:05 pm
RickD wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:55 pm
Fwiw,

The death penalty had Christ killed. And that was a case of someone innocent being killed.
Hey, that was God sacrificing himself. Don't suppose anyone here wants to have a go ?
(sorry, couldn't resist)

edit: But would you view it as a 'just' execution ?
To be particular, someone giving up (sacrificing) their life isn't the same as killing (sacrificing) themselves. ;) But otherwise, I hear what you're saying.

Capital punishing is a just penalty in life-for-life. Whether punishments can be appropriately measured out is another thing. I'd add that Christian soteriology can't be applied to social law, they're two different things. As for governing of a society, I don't have much faith in humanity, yet whatever restrains evil while increasing the good ought to be endorsed.
So, for all the Christians here then, do we agree (as Philip pointed out) on this one point that, according to scripture, we are to follow and be bound by what the governing law's of the land say we can, can't and should do ? Even though those laws may be (in your eyes) wrong, immoral, unethical, hurtful, sinful or a tad.......Brutal!!! ? (I'll assume you all agree if no one replies)


(as an aside, one could always run for office and change the law if one does not like it.....happens all the time :-) )
There are always unjust laws. E.g in many communist regimes, it is unlawful to read/preach the bible or pray publicly, but people do break these laws often and get punished. Should they obey it because the bible says so? I am not sure entirely.
Thats ok neo. But my question related to what the scripture says about following government law. Even Philip say's he wouldn't adhere to government law if it told him to execute his own son if his son was found guilty of murder. I could be breaking the law every day where I park my car for example (but that would done on extreme principle ! not laziness y:^o )
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Re: Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

#35

Post by Philip » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:29 pm

Mans law says: “Bow down and worship the king!”

NEVER!

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Re: Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

#36

Post by LittleHamster » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:58 pm

Consider this scenario:

The accused, Mr. Homo PossibleKillis has fronted the court on a charge of 1st degree murder. The evidence presented was based on the testimony of one witness - Mr. Homo Dubious, who himself has a string of multiple convictions related to attempted murder.

According to state and federal law, if an accused is found guilty of 1st degree murder, he is to be executed by an appointed executioner but there is also a provision in the law for the judge to leave it up to the discretion of a Jury panel on whether or not the criminal is to be executed.

Presiding Judge, J.C. VendingMachine has, based on the evidence, found the accused guilty of 1st degree Murder but has left the sentencing and possible execution to be determined and carried out by a jury panel consisting of GodandScience forum posters.


Panel Deliberates........Should we execute him ?

Yes - Jesus said you reap what you sow, murderers have sown their own fate.
No - Jesus says we should show love, mercy and turn the other cheek.

Yes - God has instructed society to put a murderer to death, how you treat people and how society treats criminals should be kept separate.
No - That was old testament justice. Jesus overturned Old Testament law that allowed retributive violence.

Yes - Spiritual Law cannot be broken - every last remaining debt must and will be paid back.
No - In that case, he will eventually pay for his crimes, regardless of whether he is executed or not.

Yes - Look at Romans 13, Paul-Acts 25, Luke 23 - Wrongdoers should not seek to escape death, Fear the one who is in authority - carrying out God's wrath, We receive the due reward of our deeds.
No - Look at Romans 12:17, Romans 12:19 - Don't repay evil with evil, and leave vengeance up to God.

Yes - God says we should follow what the law of govenrment says and execute him. (Genesis 9:6; Romans 13:1-7)
No - Law's are written by men, have loopholes, inconsitiencies, etc.

Yes - Don't bring religion into this matter, punishement should fit the crime exaclty.
No - In that case, leniency should be shown because every single circumstance is different. The murdered can, to some degree, contribute to their own death.

Yes - No single person has authority to kill someone, its society that has determined his end.
No - But we, as a group, have been given the decision whether he lives or dies, not society.

Yes - Government Prosecuter says to execute him.
No - Government Prosecuter is a bit over zealous, has been wrong in the past and corrupt and sinful, God says to rebuke sinners .

Yes - Murderers are 100% guilty without a doubt.
No - System is flawed and the innocent may and have been executed in the past.

Yes - Sending them to prison, they can still harm others.
No - Sending them to prison, they can do no more harm in solitary confinement.

Yes - Kill 'em, they can go straight to hell.
No - Sending them to prison gives them a chance to repent.

Yes - The relatives of the murdered will be greatly relieved once exectuted.
No - The relatives of the murdered have shown forgiveness and prefer solitary confinement for the murderer.

Yes - On death row they are more likely to repent.
No - No, repenting is initiated by God alone.

Yes - Killing someone is punishment.
No - Death is a release, not a punishment. Let them suffer in Jail.

Yes - They are useless scum and sending them to prison is a holiday camp.
No - They can be put to work in prison and give back to society.

Yes - My morals and ethics deem execution necessary.
No - My moral and ethics say send him to jail instead.

Yes - He is just a nobody, no one's going to really care if he gets the electric chair.
No - He's the son of one of the Panel members !

Yes - Execution is painless and quick.
No - Execution is a tad Brutal........BRUTAL !!!

Yes - The outcome is the 'right'.
No - Two 'wrongs' don't make a 'right'.

No - He is a human being. We must protect the sanctiy of life. Science has detected brainwaves.
Yes - Those brainwaves are now of a questionable and corrupt nature and beyond rehabilitation.


The GodandScience Panel, after careful deliberation, are still arguing to this point, on the convicted murderer's fate.

Thank you for Watching Hamsters'...


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Re: Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

#37

Post by LittleHamster » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:53 pm

Looks like he spun the wheel of misfortune.....and lost.

Japan executes sarin gas attack cult leader Shoko Asahara and six members by Hanging. (Brutal !!!)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... rs-reports

"Amnesty International said it “condemns in the strongest terms these despicable crimes. Those responsible deserve to be punished, but the death penalty is never the answer. The mark of a civilized society is recognising the rights of every individual, even those responsible for heinous crimes. The death penalty can never deliver justice as it is the ultimate denial of human rights.”
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Re: Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

#38

Post by neo-x » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:29 pm

LittleHamster wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:53 pm
Looks like he spun the wheel of misfortune.....and lost.

Japan executes sarin gas attack cult leader Shoko Asahara and six members by Hanging. (Brutal !!!)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... rs-reports

"Amnesty International said it “condemns in the strongest terms these despicable crimes. Those responsible deserve to be punished, but the death penalty is never the answer. The mark of a civilized society is recognising the rights of every individual, even those responsible for heinous crimes. The death penalty can never deliver justice as it is the ultimate denial of human rights.”
Hanging is, in fact, a benign form of capital punishment.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

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LittleHamster
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Re: Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

#39

Post by LittleHamster » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:36 am

neo-x wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:29 pm
LittleHamster wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:53 pm
Looks like he spun the wheel of misfortune.....and lost.

Japan executes sarin gas attack cult leader Shoko Asahara and six members by Hanging. (Brutal !!!)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... rs-reports

"Amnesty International said it “condemns in the strongest terms these despicable crimes. Those responsible deserve to be punished, but the death penalty is never the answer. The mark of a civilized society is recognising the rights of every individual, even those responsible for heinous crimes. The death penalty can never deliver justice as it is the ultimate denial of human rights.”
Hanging is, in fact, a benign form of capital punishment.

Here's few more....(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... punishment)

Modern Methods:

Hanging
Shooting
Lethal Injection
Electrocution
Gas Inhalation
Beheading

Ancient Methods:

Animals
Back-Breaking
Blowing from a Gun
Blood Eagle
Boiling to Death
Breaking Wheel
Burning
Buried Alive
Cooking
Crucifying
Crushing
Disembowelment
Dismemberment
Drawing and Quartering
Falling
Flaying
Garrote
Gibbeting
Immurement
Impalement
Keelhauling
Poena Cullei (drowning)
Poisoning
Pendulum
Sawing
Scaphism
Slow Slicing
Smothering
Starvation
Stoning
Strongulation
Suffocation

Other methods to consider:

Walking the plank.
The old 'body in the acid bath' treatment.
Buried neck deep near the ocean or around the ant nest in the hot sun (I reckon this is a hollywood movie thing).
Thrown out into space (as in Aliens the movie)

and lets not forget......THE MEAT GRINDER !!!













































BRUTAL !!!
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Re: Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

#40

Post by LittleHamster » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:47 am

Now, besides execution, I've been pondering what would be an appropriate punishment for a murderer who kills an "innocent" person. Paul mentioned that execution is a 'release' not a punishment.

Firstly, you cannot bring the murdered person back to life so we need to find the an appropriate 'equalizer' as a penalty, ie., the next best thing to an Eye-for-an-eye.

I think it would be a combination of:-

(i) Indefinite Incarceration (this serves as part punishment and also to prevent the possibility of further killing)
(ii) Works-based redemption (excuse the term). Redemption here means "repaying the debt".

Part (ii) should involve 2 parts in itself:-

Part (ii)a - routine work in prison that contributes back to society - e.g. building life-saving equipment, etc..
Part (ii)b - regular donation of blood - to help save other's lives and the donation of organ(s) would also be appropriate. If a murderer kills multiple people, then multiple organs should be extracted from the murderer and given to those that need them (but only to the extent that he can still be kept alive and useful in prison).

Remember the motto......"A living incarcerated murderer can be a useful incarcerated murderer".



Solved !
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