Another Question for Atheists and Agnostics

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Philip
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Another Question for Atheists and Agnostics

#1

Post by Philip » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:21 pm

Here's are some questions for the atheists and agnostics here:

First the setup: Per what is written in Scripture, and assume for my question's sake that it is true - MANY people were recorded in the New Testament of having sat at Jesus feet and saw astounding, impossible things - miraculous things, but they STILL would not believe He was from God - not to mention that He WAS God. They saw him heal people who had been blind since birth, lame since birth, healed paralytics, raised dead people to life, healed people mute, gave site to a man born blind, fed a large crowd miraculously - and we're told there were many other miraculous things Jesus did that were not recorded.

The questions:

If you, a modern-day unbeliever, had seen Jesus do these impossible things, would you have believed He was from God, if not God Himself?

Would you have believed His claims about Himself?

Would seeing before your eyes, Jesus call a man from his tomb, back to life, or had seen a man lame from birth instantly given the ability to run down the street - would that have made you believe what He was saying about Himself - would you have believed this man couldn't be an ordinary mortal?

WHAT would have been your response?

And if you KNEW that the recorded testimonies of these events were true, what would your assessment be of those who saw but didn't believe? Would YOU have needed more evidence? What would you have needed that they didn't receive?

Kenny
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Re: Another Question for Atheists and Agnostics

#2

Post by Kenny » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:54 am

Philip wrote: Here's are some questions for the atheists and agnostics here:

First the setup: Per what is written in Scripture, and assume for my question's sake that it is true - MANY people were recorded in the New Testament of having sat at Jesus feet and saw astounding, impossible things - miraculous things, but they STILL would not believe He was from God - not to mention that He WAS God. They saw him heal people who had been blind since birth, lame since birth, healed paralytics, raised dead people to life, healed people mute, gave site to a man born blind, fed a large crowd miraculously - and we're told there were many other miraculous things Jesus did that were not recorded.

The questions:

If you, a modern-day unbeliever, had seen Jesus do these impossible things, would you have believed He was from God, if not God Himself?

Would you have believed His claims about Himself?

Would seeing before your eyes, Jesus call a man from his tomb, back to life, or had seen a man lame from birth instantly given the ability to run down the street - would that have made you believe what He was saying about Himself - would you have believed this man couldn't be an ordinary mortal?

WHAT would have been your response?

As a modern day unbeliever, and aware of what many of the street magicians do that appear impossible to me, if I saw someone doing things that appear impossible to me, and he claimed to be God, I would probably assume he was just preforming magic tricks that countless other magicians preform and I wouldn’t trust his claims of divinity.
However if he did something that was far beyond anything I have seen on the streets or TV, and he claimed there was a God and that he was it, I would attempt to get to know him better. If he made demands of me and threatened to harm me if I refused to comply, I would probably comply out of fear. If he didn’t threaten me in any way, and was okay with just being my friend, I would gladly get to know him.

Philip wrote: And if you KNEW that the recorded testimonies of these events were true, what would your assessment be of those who saw but didn't believe? Would YOU have needed more evidence? What would you have needed that they didn't receive?
I remember asking a Christian friend of mine if he found out if another religion was right, and his was wrong; would he burn his Bible and worship this other God, and he said he would refuse to bow down to another God.
I guess I would have the same assessment of those who saw but didn't believe as I had of my friend; when you invest your entire life in something, it is kinda hard to just give it up at the drop of a hat.

Ken

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Re: Another Question for Atheists and Agnostics

#3

Post by Philip » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:42 pm

Philip wrote:
And if you KNEW that the recorded testimonies of these events were true, what would your assessment be of those who saw but didn't believe? Would YOU have needed more evidence? What would you have needed that they didn't receive?
Ken: However if he did something that was far beyond anything I have seen on the streets or TV, and he claimed there was a God and that he was it, I would attempt to get to know him better. If he made demands of me and threatened to harm me if I refused to comply, I would probably comply out of fear. If he didn’t threaten me in any way, and was okay with just being my friend, I would gladly get to know him.
Why, did Jesus ever threaten anyone for wanting to know or follow Him? Exactly WHO does Jesus always assert causes their unsaved fates? Him or them? The unsaved themselves, correct? What does He say is the cause of their rejectino? THEIR own hard hearts, minds and selfish desires. God has set up a reality that includes freedom of choices and consequences tied to them - consequences that are for both here and in the next world. Jesus, motivated out of love and concern, warns of consequences of rejection of God - and it's not because He doesn't want people - it's for exactly the opposite reason: Because He wants EVERYONE to come to Him, and to be with Him forever. Seems to me you are still dragging along your strawman reasons as to why you might would have hedged believing in Jesus, if you had actually seen the miracles documented in Scripture.
Ken: I remember asking a Christian friend of mine if he found out if another religion was right, and his was wrong; would he burn his Bible and worship this other God, and he said he would refuse to bow down to another God.
I guess I would have the same assessment of those who saw but didn't believe as I had of my friend; when you invest your entire life in something, it is kinda hard to just give it up at the drop of a hat.
But the question is about once you realized the truth or the reality that this person doing these miracles could not be of the earth - as you would have SEEN Him do things totally impossible. Are you saying that the "things that you had invested your life in, as who you are and what you believed, once up-ended by the reality of this miracle-man Jesus - that seeing the truth before your eyes - you wouldn't necessarily have been open to following Him?

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Re: Another Question for Atheists and Agnostics

#4

Post by Kenny » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Philip wrote:
And if you KNEW that the recorded testimonies of these events were true, what would your assessment be of those who saw but didn't believe? Would YOU have needed more evidence? What would you have needed that they didn't receive?
Ken: However if he did something that was far beyond anything I have seen on the streets or TV, and he claimed there was a God and that he was it, I would attempt to get to know him better. If he made demands of me and threatened to harm me if I refused to comply, I would probably comply out of fear. If he didn’t threaten me in any way, and was okay with just being my friend, I would gladly get to know him.
Philip wrote: Why, did Jesus ever threaten anyone for wanting to know or follow Him? Exactly WHO does Jesus always assert causes their unsaved fates? Him or them? The unsaved themselves, correct? What does He say is the cause of their rejectino? THEIR own hard hearts, minds and selfish desires. God has set up a reality that includes freedom of choices and consequences tied to them - consequences that are for both here and in the next world. Jesus, motivated out of love and concern, warns of consequences of rejection of God - and it's not because He doesn't want people - it's for exactly the opposite reason: Because He wants EVERYONE to come to Him, and to be with Him forever. Seems to me you are still dragging along your strawman reasons as to why you might would have hedged believing in Jesus, if you had actually seen the miracles documented in Scripture.
I said I would want to get to know Jesus. Getting to know Jesus does not include choosing to worship Yahweh, or becoming on of his followers; perhaps that is where we would disagree.
Ken: I remember asking a Christian friend of mine if he found out if another religion was right, and his was wrong; would he burn his Bible and worship this other God, and he said he would refuse to bow down to another God.
I guess I would have the same assessment of those who saw but didn't believe as I had of my friend; when you invest your entire life in something, it is kinda hard to just give it up at the drop of a hat.
Philip wrote: But the question is about once you realized the truth or the reality that this person doing these miracles could not be of the earth - as you would have SEEN Him do things totally impossible. Are you saying that the "things that you had invested your life in, as who you are and what you believed, once up-ended by the reality of this miracle-man Jesus - that seeing the truth before your eyes - you wouldn't necessarily have been open to following Him?
The question I was responding to was about what I felt about those who saw Jesus and refused to follow him, it was not about me.

Ken

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Re: Another Question for Atheists and Agnostics

#5

Post by Justhuman » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:01 am

Philip wrote:Here's are some questions for the atheists and agnostics here:

First the setup: Per what is written in Scripture, and assume for my question's sake that it is true - MANY people were recorded in the New Testament of having sat at Jesus feet and saw astounding, impossible things - miraculous things, but they STILL would not believe He was from God - not to mention that He WAS God. They saw him heal people who had been blind since birth, lame since birth, healed paralytics, raised dead people to life, healed people mute, gave site to a man born blind, fed a large crowd miraculously - and we're told there were many other miraculous things Jesus did that were not recorded.

The questions:

If you, a modern-day unbeliever, had seen Jesus do these impossible things, would you have believed He was from God, if not God Himself?

Would you have believed His claims about Himself?

Would seeing before your eyes, Jesus call a man from his tomb, back to life, or had seen a man lame from birth instantly given the ability to run down the street - would that have made you believe what He was saying about Himself - would you have believed this man couldn't be an ordinary mortal?

WHAT would have been your response?

And if you KNEW that the recorded testimonies of these events were true, what would your assessment be of those who saw but didn't believe? Would YOU have needed more evidence? What would you have needed that they didn't receive?
That is an 'impossible' question to answer, since I can only answer that it when I am in such a situation.
Since that situation will not occur:
- Hypothetically I could become a believer in God.
- Hypothetically I could unmask him as a fraud.

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Re: Another Question for Atheists and Agnostics

#6

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:21 am

When I think about this question, Philip, I am reminds of this story:
John 18:
My Kingdom Is Not of This World
33 So Pilate entered his headquarters again and called Jesus and said to him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” 34 Jesus answered, “Do you say this of your own accord, or did others say it to you about me?” 35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered you over to me. What have you done?” 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” 37 Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” 38 Pilate said to him, “What is truth?”
Many people read this and think that Pilate got no reply from Jesus OR that he was stating a rhetorical question.
But the passage before that helps clear this a bit:
For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice
Jesus told Pilate what the truth is, WHO the truth is, Pilate simply couldn't hear it because he choose NOT to be open to the truth.
Like so many skeptics that find reasons NOT to believe and, IMO, that is the point of those stories of people that witnesses the impossible but still did not believe or even turned on God regardless ( Like Israel in the wilderness).

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