Original discussion here
Kurieuo wrote:Well, I wouldn't call the "birther" thing entirely a lie, since forensic investigations found the certificate supplied was a fabricated copy. As I said elsewhere:
Yes... I looked at your assertions, and I pointed out at the time, the 'dubious' nature of those investigations and their conclusions.
, I'm not sure you responded to me after I said why I find it quite damning.
Explain what was dubious? The investigators in their own words were expecting to "prove" the certificate legitimate, even voted for Obama twice. They were trying to clear the then President. So it isn't dubious in that respect.
So it must be dubious, I suppose because you wish to close your eyes and put fingers in your ears.
Kind of like ACB Trump-wingers do at the other end of the spectrum who now can't see Trump putting any foot wrong.
DB wrote:This is not an agreed upon conclusion by forensic investigators.
So I reject the assertion that legitimate forensic investigations have determined that the certificate was fabricated.
Not agreed upon? It was the conclusion of the investigation (Sheriff Joe Arpaio's) that the certificate was forged. Prove me wrong and that you're truly eyes and ears open, watch this:
K wrote:Furthermore, are you saying it wasn't the administration under Hillary that started it?
In the threads where we discussed the birther lie, I demonstrated that the birther nonsense first showed up in right wing blogs.
And even the picture that ACB likes to show was not used to question where Obama was born, it was used by some in Hillary's campaign to suggest that Obama was secretly a Muslim... until Hillary fired them for it.
As I've stated any number of times, there is no evidence anywhere to indicate that Hillary ever claimed that Obama was not born in the US.
The assertion that birtherism was started by Hillary is a lie perpetuated by Trump, his campaign, and his followers.
Repeating Trumpian 'alternative facts' over and over them doesn't magically make them true.
I just pointed to an email found in Podesta's archive. Such isn't right-wing. I suppose though, the Russians could have planted such an email since they were the ones to leak them all to Wikileaks.
Maybe it's Russia-wing information propaganda.
Second, such ideas were around long before Trump and recent elections. Trump never started them, even if he was caught up in them. Such doesn't make him a bald-face liar, but if entirely untrue (questionable) at worst deceived and misled. He even ultimately affirmed, and tried to the issue to rest, by declaring Obama was born in the US (something more than what Hillary did back in 2008). People will decide for themselves and reach conclusions on their own with/without any leading spokesman.
Furthermore, I really don't care for "right" or "left" baloney. People are people, and the majority in the US just living their every day lives probably don't even know what such terms mean. Only a small majority I'd say would affirm "Right" or "Left" labels, if they even know the general positions often assigned to each. I dare say, many Americans out on the street would probably struggle to name your two main parties and who leads them.