My prior response:
The answer is simple - I am using the full Hebrew definition of the word for atonement. Context and grammar clarifies meaning when used in the bible. You should know this. For example, a King can send a gift to an invader to placate the enemy king and thus atone - prevent the enemy from destroying the people - hence cover them with such a gift. It depends on how the word is used and its construct.
And your current answer was:
Yes it does, but if you believe that you can legitimately use every part of the definition anywhere in Scripture, you're committing the fallacy of illegitimate totality transfer.
My Response to you:
That was the point that I was making in the New Zealand didactic, for example, you stated that Psalms 45:6-7 means only Christiandelphanian doctrine is correct and all else is wrong and is thus an illegitimate totality transfer.
I will prove it by using the English words to translate Psalms 45:6-7 in the direct word order the Hebrew Scriptures use. I will also place the Hebrew grammatical form/tenses used following each word in brackets. Each single Hebrew word will be grouped according to English translated words:
Psalms 45: 6-7
6-Your throne (Noun, Pronominal Suffix, Construct) God (Plural Noun) is forever (Noun) and ever (Waw Conjunctive, Noun) a scepter of (Construct with Noun) uprightness (Noun Usage) is the scepter of (Construct — Noun) your kingdom (Noun, Pronominal Suffix, Construct). You love (Qal Perfect) rightwiseness (Noun Usage) and hate (Waw Conjunctive) wickedness (Noun Usage).
7-Therefore has (Preposition, Adverb) anointed You (Noun, Pronominal Suffix, Construct) God (Plural Noun), Your God (Noun, Pronominal Suffix, Construct) with the oil of (Construct — Noun) gladness (Noun Usage) more than your companions (Preposition, Noun, Pronominal Suffix, Construct).
Note verse 7 again in the Hebrew word chronological order:
Therefore has anointed You! God! Your God! with the oil of gladness more than your companions.
The person mentioned anointing is in verse 6 is God and He is the one anointing — follow context and continuity, and flow. This speaks of the Messiah to come. This is in direct reference to Jesus (Hebrews 1: 8, Revelation 1:17-20, Revelation 22:16).
Therefore, if God is anointing the Messiah as God and God shall send forth His word to accomplish it then who dare Jesus be? God? Man?
If you define the Messiah as being only a man then what about the biblical phrase — there is no God before God, None! And, here, somebody is being anointed God - not a human judge/ruler - God - not a person endowed with power, instead, God! Hebrew grammar is emphatic on this.
The Hebrew text shouts this in the Noun, Pronominal Suffix, Construct which means it is an absolute emphatic expression. You cannot not change the Hebrew grammar, nor change its contextual flow to fit Christiandelphanian doctrine.
When the bible says “Therefore has anointed You! God! Your God!” in the actual flow of Hebrew — you cannot read it any other way unless you use one or two definitions of a single word to define every scripture using the same word — as Christiandelphanian doctrine does: A movement founded by physician John Thomas in the 1840's to uphold his beliefs.
How, by committing the fallacy of illegitimate totality transfer as evidence by Christiandelphanian abundant use of scriptures used to dazzle the poor eyes of the unwise just as 2 Peter 1:20 and 2 Timothy 2:15 states.
Christiandelphanians speak from founder's belief system to prove reliability of what they believe. It appears that they like to accuse anyone disagreeing with them of committing the fallacy of illegitimate totality transfer.
How, basically, in my opinion, like this, the church founders all met one day in the back smoke filled rooms and concocted the doctrine of the Trinity by falsifying meaning of bible text to only mean their view. My response to this why? No reason too. Bible shouts truth - do not twist it.
The church founders in history came to the word of God itself and said — show me Lord, teach me Lord. They read Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, and many languages and noted that certain passages in the bible cannot be altered in meaning due to grammar, syntax, construction, continuity of flow, etc.
They read and discovered: Jesus was the Messiah, The reconciler, the sacrifice for sin once and for all, Jesus both God and man, divine and Human for a specific reason and purpose. They discovered that Jesus is Lord!
Jude 4 "For admission has been secretly gained by some who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly persons who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."
Fortigurn, can you call Jesus Christ your only Master and Lord?
Fortigurn, can you like Thomas says in John 20:28, " My Lord and my God!"
Who is really guilty of committing an illegitimate totality transfer?
Christiandelphanian's understand that only their doctrine is the only correct one and all else is wrong and is thus an illegitimate totality transfer. An over-abundant use of scriptures does not prove anything other than an illegitimate totality transfer of ones idea at the expense of the honest scriptural investigation.
Stick with the subject - who was Jesus Christ - Fortigurn?
Last edited by B. W.
on Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.