'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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Stu
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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#31

Post by Stu » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:44 am

If you stop believing in Christ as your saviour and instead turn to Satanism and stealing and murder. You lose your salvation.
"Whoever believes in me has everlasting life", what if you no longer believe in Christ.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#32

Post by RickD » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:04 am

Stu wrote:If you stop believing in Christ as your saviour and instead turn to Satanism and stealing and murder. You lose your salvation.
"Whoever believes in me has everlasting life", what if you no longer believe in Christ.
What if one steals and murders while believing in Christ as his savior? Does he lose his salvation?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#33

Post by jpbg33 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:23 am

Someone will not steal and murder if they believe in Christ. If they do then they do not believe in Christ. If they did then they stopped before the stole or murdered. The bible says walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#34

Post by RickD » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:47 am

jpbg33 wrote:Someone will not steal and murder if they believe in Christ. If they do then they do not believe in Christ. If they did then they stopped before the stole or murdered. The bible says walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Ah, the no true Scotsman fallacy.

Jpbg says Christians don't sin. Got it.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#35

Post by Philip » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:43 am

When David sinned with Bathsheba - when he had her husband murdered by sending him to the front - did David have faith in God at that time? Or was he an unbeliever?

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#36

Post by jpbg33 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:23 pm

David wasn't a Christian. He leaved before Jesus die on the cross.

RickD I do believe Christians may make a mistake I do not believe that all Christians will live mistake free.

But Christians will not be out robbing people or killing people. The fact that Christians may make a mistake is in the fact the bible said to walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. But when a Christian find that they have sinned they repent but when a sinner sins they do not because it is there nature to sin. It is not in the nature of a Christian to sin because we are a new creature in Christ Jesus and the bible says God puts it in our hearts to live right.

So if you are a true believer you will not be stealing or killing things.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#37

Post by RickD » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:19 pm

jpbg wrote:
David wasn't a Christian. He leaved before Jesus die on the cross.
Where'd he go?
RickD I do believe Christians may make a mistake I do not believe that all Christians will live mistake free.
Please list all sins that are permissible for Christians. I want to make sure I'm only making mistakes that you think are ok.
So if you are a true believer you will not be stealing or killing things.
I knew it!! Hunting and fishing are sins worthy of hellfire!!!
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#38

Post by jpbg33 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:24 pm

That was a typo I do not think it is a sin to go hunting I meant Christians wont kill people unless in self defense, war or something like that. David did not go to heaven when he died he went to Abraham's bosom. He couldn't go to heaven because he was not a Christian yet.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#39

Post by RickD » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:53 pm

jpbg33 wrote:That was a typo I do not think it is a sin to go hunting I meant Christians wont kill people unless in self defense, war or something like that. David did not go to heaven when he died he went to Abraham's bosom.
I thought you said it was Jacob's bosom in Parricide?
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 98#p210898
He couldn't go to heaven because he was not a Christian yet.
When did David become a Christian?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#40

Post by Stu » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:16 am

RickD wrote:
Stu wrote:If you stop believing in Christ as your saviour and instead turn to Satanism and stealing and murder. You lose your salvation.
"Whoever believes in me has everlasting life", what if you no longer believe in Christ.
What if one steals and murders while believing in Christ as his savior? Does he lose his salvation?
No, if you ask for forgiveness. And only if you are sincere, not if you keep on murdering and stealing. God knows your heart and whether you are being sincere. Like the Mafia who ask for forgiveness and then go and murder.

Besides that's not what I said....... I said "If you stop believing in Christ as your saviour and instead turn to Satanism".
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#41

Post by RickD » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:28 am

Stu wrote:
RickD wrote:
Stu wrote:If you stop believing in Christ as your saviour and instead turn to Satanism and stealing and murder. You lose your salvation.
"Whoever believes in me has everlasting life", what if you no longer believe in Christ.
What if one steals and murders while believing in Christ as his savior? Does he lose his salvation?
No, if you ask for forgiveness. And only if you are sincere, not if you keep on murdering and stealing. God knows your heart and whether you are being sincere. Like the Mafia who ask for forgiveness and then go and murder.

Besides that's not what I said....... I said "If you stop believing in Christ as your saviour and instead turn to Satanism".
Stu,

I read what you said. I'm trying to show you the logical conclusion of what you said.

Is unbelief a sin?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#42

Post by Stu » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:25 am

RickD wrote:
Stu wrote:
RickD wrote:
Stu wrote:If you stop believing in Christ as your saviour and instead turn to Satanism and stealing and murder. You lose your salvation.
"Whoever believes in me has everlasting life", what if you no longer believe in Christ.
What if one steals and murders while believing in Christ as his savior? Does he lose his salvation?
No, if you ask for forgiveness. And only if you are sincere, not if you keep on murdering and stealing. God knows your heart and whether you are being sincere. Like the Mafia who ask for forgiveness and then go and murder.

Besides that's not what I said....... I said "If you stop believing in Christ as your saviour and instead turn to Satanism".
Stu,

I read what you said. I'm trying to show you the logical conclusion of what you said.

Is unbelief a sin?
I guess not, but you have to believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins in order to go to heaven. So that God can forgive your sins.

What if you no longer believe that.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#43

Post by jpbg33 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:30 am

RickD Maybe you will get it with way will there be any lying Christians in Heaven.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#44

Post by Philip » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:01 am

you have to believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins in order to go to heaven. So that God can forgive your sins. What if you no longer believe that.
OK, related question: How do you know that the person EVER truly believed or had a saving faith of the heart and mind to begin with? Guess what, you CAN'T!

Let's say one COULD become "temporarily" saved and then later they could lose it by later rejecting Christ. A) We'd have no idea as to whether they were truly saved to begin with, or if they were and then tossed it away in unbelief. B) It is still a matter of the heart and mind, having faith or no faith. C) WE can't change a person's heart or mind - as it is THEIR heart and mind. So, from this standpoint, since one couldn't know the real deal, and we can't change their minds, it's a ridiculous debate.

What is important about the debate is the distortion of what many assert the Bible teaches about this, as opposed to what it clearly does not. Most debating this know the various Scriptures about it, and yet the debate rages on and on. Be convinced in your own mind. Of course, having CONFIDENCE in our salvation, once we have exmanied ourselves to know that we have truly placed of faith in Christ, is very important. And, of course, the Devil wants you to doubt your salvation and to worry about that. We are creatures of feelings. At times of not feeling especially spiritual, the Devil wants you to doubt your salvation and God's love - and thus the great danger of the false belief one could lose their salvation, or that man has the ability to sustain it.

The only ones I really care to discuss this are people I think haven't been shown a comprehensive view of the issue. Once that has occurred, as redundantly so here with Jpbg, I really don't see much further point.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#45

Post by jpbg33 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:14 am

Philip I have already proved you wrong I just haven't let you know it yet. So RickD are lying Christians going to heaven. This is an easy question to answer. "yes or no" will do.

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