By universe, I simply mean all space, time, and matter. If things had yet to exist, you're saying that numbers still existed in the mind, even though there was nothing that numbers represented?Byblos wrote:By universe I assume you mean reality, whether it be this universe or other or multi. As K suggested, abstract ideas exist in the mind, an intelligent mind. I can think of 7 unicorns, though they don't necessarily exist.RickD wrote:But doesn't the number 7 represent a specific quantity of things that didn't exist prior to the universe? If all "things" came into existence with the universe, then how can something that represents something else, exist even in the abstract, if whatever it can possibly represent, has never existed?Byblos wrote:Math as a property of reality, no. But math as am abstract entity, yes. The number 7 as an abstract is not dependent on the universe. But it doesn't stand in causal relation to anything either.RickD wrote:K,
What do you mean when you say, "maths appears to be an eternal property"?
You're saying maths was a property of the universe, before the universe existed?
Is this getting into the immutability of God?