new study on nde's says they are real

[Mallz]

In the study, at least one person had blue fatigues. Was he the only one?! Balding and chubby ones (which covers a wide range) are never far behind. I see them standing outside hospitals every time I'm cycling through the city. Coincidence?

The blue fatigues and blue hat is not impressive, agreed. It doesn't matter if you see them standing outside hospitals. And no, fat bald male scrubbed medical workers (not sure if they identified his role) are not common in hospitals, maybe as patients. Not sure who you keep seeing... maybe the same guy?

I've already given multiple explanations for why the patient would report seeing the "blue" man. And information leakage possibilities going back to the patient before the time of the patient's interview for the published AWARE study are clearly big enough to drive a truck through.

Sounds like you just don't believe the patient. The details given weren't the best but you're denying the pt. could recognize someone from behind.
As far as your other 'possibilities', I'm not impressed with them at all.

That you would credulously prefer to believe in an extraordinary out-of-body explanation, in lieu of one of these obvious likely prosaic explanations first, speaks volumes.

I personally don't really care about this particular study. It was others that made me believe in NDE.
And your alternative explanations are poor and unimpressive lacking knowledge in hospital protocols and relationship between patient and staff, not to mention rigid protocols followed for the study itself.

OK. Give me your best published study.

Doubt I'll make it to the Hostipals/Universities library anytime soon...
But you'd find them with google searching. That's how I found most of the ones I thought were convincing.
And what convinced me most were people reporting knowing things they couldn't have that dealt with their environment. Like a woman who had an NDE and could give specifics about a shoe on top of the hospital no one could see unless they were on the roof.
I'll see what I can gather for you when I have some time (this week)

[Mallz]

And for the sake of our conversation I'm curious Morny, during your own research which studies have you found more convincing and why?
Is the basis of your rejection from a materialistic foundation, or something else?

[Hope67]

Creepy..I've been searching around for NDEs lately, too. I guess I'm trying to reconcile my senses with my faith and Catholic brain. Some of these stories are wonderful, others are scary. But mostly all come back on fire for God and to live better lives toward their fellow man. LOVE seems to be the driving force. I'm approaching this cautiously because we have been warned the devil himself could transform himself into an angel of light. However, wouldn't it hurt Satans plans to try to convince a soul that God is this great, forgiving, loving being? Can NDEs be a trick of the evil one or are they real? Does Jesus really go after the soul and sweep it into His arms REGARDLESS of their former wrongs? Has religion skewed the gospel with its rules? Is the gospel REALLY that simple for all? The NDE that caught my attention the most was Betty J Eaddy " embraced by the light". It's hard for me to trust anything because on the one hand, I read my bible and God says on one side he loves us so much that he sent His only son and on the other side, we are in danger of hell if we call someone an idiot. So...am I to believe that there is NOTHING I do right and that Jesus will love me no matter what? in revelation Jesus says he spits out lukewarm Christians....but He rescues all these souls....CONFUSED as HECK!!! What are your thoughts guys?

[B. W.]

Creepy..I've been searching around for NDEs lately, too. I guess I'm trying to reconcile my senses with my faith and Catholic brain. Some of these stories are wonderful, others are scary. But mostly all come back on fire for God and to live better lives toward their fellow man. LOVE seems to be the driving force. I'm approaching this cautiously because we have been warned the devil himself could transform himself into an angel of light. However, wouldn't it hurt Satans plans to try to convince a soul that God is this great, forgiving, loving being? Can NDEs be a trick of the evil one or are they real? Does Jesus really go after the soul and sweep it into His arms REGARDLESS of their former wrongs? Has religion skewed the gospel with its rules? Is the gospel REALLY that simple for all? The NDE that caught my attention the most was Betty J Eaddy " embraced by the light". It's hard for me to trust anything because on the one hand, I read my bible and God says on one side he loves us so much that he sent His only son and on the other side, we are in danger of hell if we call someone an idiot. So...am I to believe that there is NOTHING I do right and that Jesus will love me no matter what? in revelation Jesus says he spits out lukewarm Christians....but He rescues all these souls....CONFUSED as HECK!!! What are your thoughts guys?

Question: What did Jesus come to save us from if there was nothing to be saved from?
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[Morny]

Sounds like you just don't believe the patient.

I believe the patients all believe that they're telling the truth.

As I've mentioned several times, the problem is that the study does not seem to have done anything to exclude innumerable possibilities that someone or something divulged information in the days before the interview. The patient could easily have forgotten or misremembered where the information came from, especially if under the influence of drugs for many hours, or simply exhausted from the ordeal.

Also remember that this study found only one "verified" patient. Did other non-"verified" patients recall seeing a red haired person? Or any one of numerous other "misses"? The published study doesn't seem to say, so how can I distinguish one "verified" patient from a highly likely statistical "hit"?

OK. Give me your best published study.

Doubt I'll make it to the Hostipals/Universities library anytime soon...
But you'd find them with google searching. That's how I found most of the ones I thought were convincing.
And what convinced me most were people reporting knowing things they couldn't have that dealt with their environment. Like a woman who had an NDE and could give specifics about a shoe on top of the hospital no one could see unless they were on the roof.
I'll see what I can gather for you when I have some time (this week)

Uh, oh. Please tell me we're not headed for anecdotal non-published evidence.

BTW, I know this is extremely hard to believe, but did you know the word "gullible" is not in any standard dictionary!?! Not in "Webster's", not in "American Heritage". How and why can that be?! And I'm never wrong on English matters.

And for the sake of our conversation I'm curious Morny, during your own research which studies have you found more convincing and why?
Is the basis of your rejection from a materialistic foundation, or something else?

My rejection of research comes from poor evidence. Period.

And poor evidence comes from innumerable reasons, e.g., people who want (or need) to believe, misunderstanding of math/statistics, naivety, insufficient evidence for the "extraordinariness" of the claim, ...

[Storyteller]

Regarding gullible...

Yes it is, it`s in the Collins dictionary.

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictio ... h/gullible

[Morny]

Regarding gullible...

Yes it is, it`s in the Collins dictionary.

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictio ... h/gullible

Does anyone else have the heart to tell Storyteller the joke?

[Storyteller]

I`ll just go sit in the dunce`s corner, shall I?

[PaulSacramento]

The funny thing about anecdotes, we never take them seriously as evidence, unless they are our own.

[bippy123]

The funny thing about anecdotes, we never take them seriously as evidence, unless they are our own.

The fact that the patient recognized the nurse the next day was of course something that morny glossed over , trying to mask his emotional marriage to his atheism as an intellectual objection .

The other silly objections such as interviewing a cardiac arrest patient the moment after he wakes up has already been dealt with.

It's responses like this that keep on reenforcing the fact that most atheists hold,onto their atheism from emotion and not from reason.

[bippy123]

I`ll just go sit in the dunce`s corner, shall I?

My sister is no dunce
You have great wisdom sis

[RickD]

I`ll just go sit in the dunce`s corner, shall I?

Sheesh, women!

Only if the dunce's corner is in the kitchen! Who let you out, anyways?

[Storyteller]

Aw bips, I'll pay you later

And Rick, I got time off for good behaviour.

[bippy123]

I`ll just go sit in the dunce`s corner, shall I?

Sheesh, women!

Only if the dunce's corner is in the kitchen! Who let you out, anyways?

[bippy123]

Aw bips, I'll pay you later

And Rick, I got time off for good behaviour.