Support Gay Marriage Cakes

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#31

Post by Storyteller » Fri May 29, 2015 5:18 am

If such a book existed it would probably be illegal.

For arguments sake, let`s say it`s a novel containing such information and it wasn`t illegal.
Yes, I`d still sell it, despite having a young daughter.

To be fair though Rick, it`s unlikely such a book would ever be published.

I sell, and have sold, books that detail some pretty gruesome things. Rape, murder, violence, where do I draw the line if I start censoring my books? Do I sell books on racism for instance? Books about gollywogs? Books about serial killers and rapists? Mills and Boon?

I wouldn`t refuse to sell a book because I find it offensive. I run a business and I wouldn`t want someone to buy elsewhere if they can buy from me. But I do respect that each individual has the right to refuse.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#32

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 5:19 am

Mel, Annette,

Would you force a Muslim cake maker to bake a cake that says, "Allah is Satan, and Muhammad is a false prophet"?
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24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#33

Post by melanie » Fri May 29, 2015 5:20 am

If I was a hairdresser and somebody wanted a mullet with a spiral perm what then :mrgreen:

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#34

Post by Storyteller » Fri May 29, 2015 5:23 am

No.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#35

Post by Storyteller » Fri May 29, 2015 5:23 am

melanie wrote:If I was a hairdresser and somebody wanted a mullet with a spiral perm what then :mrgreen:

That might be pushing it a little :mrgreen:
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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#36

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 5:24 am

Storyteller wrote:If such a book existed it would probably be illegal.

For arguments sake, let`s say it`s a novel containing such information and it wasn`t illegal.
Yes, I`d still sell it, despite having a young daughter.

To be fair though Rick, it`s unlikely such a book would ever be published.

I sell, and have sold, books that detail some pretty gruesome things. Rape, murder, violence, where do I draw the line if I start censoring my books? Do I sell books on racism for instance? Books about gollywogs? Books about serial killers and rapists? Mills and Boon?

I wouldn`t refuse to sell a book because I find it offensive. I run a business and I wouldn`t want someone to buy elsewhere if they can buy from me. But I do respect that each individual has the right to refuse.
I'd say a good place to draw the line would be whatever your conscience tells you. If my example being sold, doesn't violate your conscience, then fine. But if there is that certain book that you read and say there's no way you could sell it in good conscience, then you draw the line.

And I'd also say that as a Christian, your living by your conscience should take priority over your business making money. Wouldn't you agree?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#37

Post by melanie » Fri May 29, 2015 5:25 am

Storyteller wrote:No.
Haha I think I have just found the 'line' ;)

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#38

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 5:27 am

melanie wrote:If I was a hairdresser and somebody wanted a mullet with a spiral perm what then :mrgreen:
Isn't that the hip style in Aussie land?
Image
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#39

Post by melanie » Fri May 29, 2015 5:37 am

RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:If such a book existed it would probably be illegal.

For arguments sake, let`s say it`s a novel containing such information and it wasn`t illegal.
Yes, I`d still sell it, despite having a young daughter.

To be fair though Rick, it`s unlikely such a book would ever be published.

I sell, and have sold, books that detail some pretty gruesome things. Rape, murder, violence, where do I draw the line if I start censoring my books? Do I sell books on racism for instance? Books about gollywogs? Books about serial killers and rapists? Mills and Boon?

I wouldn`t refuse to sell a book because I find it offensive. I run a business and I wouldn`t want someone to buy elsewhere if they can buy from me. But I do respect that each individual has the right to refuse.
I'd say a good place to draw the line would be whatever your conscience tells you. If my example being sold, doesn't violate your conscience, then fine. But if there is that certain book that you read and say there's no way you could sell it in good conscience, then you draw the line.

And I'd also say that as a Christian, your living by your conscience should take priority over your business making money. Wouldn't you agree?
Yes Rick, I agree
It should be based on what the individual feels is appropriate, not just christians but across the board. If it puts in joepardy our conscience and integrity then a person has the right to run their business accordinly, as long as it is not bringing in bigotry, racism ect. What if someone who is prone to racism doesn't want a cake with Martin Luther King with icing ' I have a vision'.?

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#40

Post by melanie » Fri May 29, 2015 5:39 am

RickD wrote:
melanie wrote:If I was a hairdresser and somebody wanted a mullet with a spiral perm what then :mrgreen:
Isn't that the hip style in Aussie land?
Image
Ha! So hot ;)

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#41

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 5:40 am

melanie wrote:Rick, it is the comparible distiction you drew on that I saw an absurdity in.
Gays and religion compared to sick, illegal, pedophile material on how to lure young girls and rape them.
So where do you draw the line on what's acceptable sellable material.
No brainer
But Mel,

Your conscience may be ok with Gay "marriage". But obviously your conscience would bother you if you sold a pedophile book.

But that's your conscience. If someone else's conscience would not allow him to bake a cake with words that they find very offensive, should he be forced to make that cake? And if he should be forced, who should force him? Now we're talking about government getting involved in someone's business by forcing him to violate his conscience. You don't see a problem with that?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#42

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 5:42 am

melanie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:If such a book existed it would probably be illegal.

For arguments sake, let`s say it`s a novel containing such information and it wasn`t illegal.
Yes, I`d still sell it, despite having a young daughter.

To be fair though Rick, it`s unlikely such a book would ever be published.

I sell, and have sold, books that detail some pretty gruesome things. Rape, murder, violence, where do I draw the line if I start censoring my books? Do I sell books on racism for instance? Books about gollywogs? Books about serial killers and rapists? Mills and Boon?

I wouldn`t refuse to sell a book because I find it offensive. I run a business and I wouldn`t want someone to buy elsewhere if they can buy from me. But I do respect that each individual has the right to refuse.
I'd say a good place to draw the line would be whatever your conscience tells you. If my example being sold, doesn't violate your conscience, then fine. But if there is that certain book that you read and say there's no way you could sell it in good conscience, then you draw the line.

And I'd also say that as a Christian, your living by your conscience should take priority over your business making money. Wouldn't you agree?
Yes Rick, I agree
It should be based on what the individual feels is appropriate, not just christians but across the board. If it puts in joepardy our conscience and integrity then a person has the right to run their business accordinly, as long as it is not bringing in bigotry, racism ect. What if someone who is prone to racism doesn't want a cake with Martin Luther King with icing ' I have a vision'.?
In that example, I'd say it's wrong, if it's motivated by racism. BUT, he still shouldn't be forced to bake the cake.
****Edit****
Now it would be a completely different story if that same racist refused to serve a customer because the customer is black.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#43

Post by Storyteller » Fri May 29, 2015 5:47 am

I`m not saying that anyone should be forced to bake a cake that goes against what they believe. I`m just saying that personally, my belief doesn`t come into it.

As for my conscience being more important than making money.... well, kinda. But, if my business doesn`t make money it will go under and that wouldn`t just affect me, it would affect my family.

I genuinely don`t see a problem with selling something I may not agree with, as long as it`s legal.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#44

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 6:01 am

ST wrote:
I`m not saying that anyone should be forced to bake a cake that goes against what they believe. I`m just saying that personally, my belief doesn`t come into it.
And that's fine. It's not something that goes against your conscience.
As for my conscience being more important than making money.... well, kinda. But, if my business doesn`t make money it will go under and that wouldn`t just affect me, it would affect my family.
Sure. But knowing you, if you came upon something that forced you to make a choice between your conscience and your business, I bet I know what you'd choose. You also know that God would take care of you if you make good choices, right?
I genuinely don`t see a problem with selling something I may not agree with, as long as it`s legal.
And that's fine for you. You're going by your conscience.

I guess that's my whole point.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#45

Post by Storyteller » Fri May 29, 2015 6:52 am

It really is a tricky one this.

Going back to the OP, who is being discriminated against....

I`d say both.

The cake maker for being taken to court for standing by what they believe in and refusing to make the cake and the gay couple for being refused a cake based on what someone else believes.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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