Adam and Eve

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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B. W.
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Re: Adam and Eve

#16

Post by B. W. » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:57 am

Below is a quote from Wiki on the subject of the 'Serpent Seed' being discussed here so that readers can gain a quick grasp of what this doctrine is and its history in brief...
Serpent seed, dual seed or two-seedline is a controversial doctrine, according to which the serpent in the Garden of Eden mated with Eve, and the offspring of their union was Cain. This belief is still held by some adherents of the white-supremacist theology known as Christian Identity, who claim that the Jews, as descendants of Cain, are also descended from the serpent.[1][2] The idea has also existed in several other non-racial contexts, and major proponents include Daniel Parker (1781–1844)[3] and William M. Branham (1909–65).[4]

The doctrine that Eve mated with the serpent, or with Satan, to produce Cain also appears in early Gnostic writings such as the Gospel of Philip (c. 350); however, this teaching was explicitly rejected as heresy by Irenaeus[5] (c. 180) and later mainstream Christian theologians. A similar doctrine appeared in Jewish midrashic texts in the 9th century and in the Kabalah. It is considered a false doctrine by mainstream Protestants.[6] Catholic theologians point to the fact that the Bible states that the original sin is that of Adam and Eve eating a forbidden fruit.[7]

Wikipedia Serpent Seed Article
Next is a link to CARM article regarding this teaching: Carm Link click here

By these, folks can brush up on this doctrine. Once in a while we have it surface on this Forum and it appears again...
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Adam and Eve

#17

Post by Domenic » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:08 am

B. W. wrote:Below is a quote from Wiki on the subject of the 'Serpent Seed' being discussed here so that readers can gain a quick grasp of what this doctrine is and its history in brief...
Serpent seed, dual seed or two-seedline is a controversial doctrine, according to which the serpent in the Garden of Eden mated with Eve, and the offspring of their union was Cain. This belief is still held by some adherents of the white-supremacist theology known as Christian Identity, who claim that the Jews, as descendants of Cain, are also descended from the serpent.[1][2] The idea has also existed in several other non-racial contexts, and major proponents include Daniel Parker (1781–1844)[3] and William M. Branham (1909–65).[4]

The doctrine that Eve mated with the serpent, or with Satan, to produce Cain also appears in early Gnostic writings such as the Gospel of Philip (c. 350); however, this teaching was explicitly rejected as heresy by Irenaeus[5] (c. 180) and later mainstream Christian theologians. A similar doctrine appeared in Jewish midrashic texts in the 9th century and in the Kabalah. It is considered a false doctrine by mainstream Protestants.[6] Catholic theologians point to the fact that the Bible states that the original sin is that of Adam and Eve eating a forbidden fruit.[7]

Wikipedia Serpent Seed Article
Next is a link to CARM article regarding this teaching: Carm Link click here

By these, folks can brush up on this doctrine. Once in a while we have it surface on this Forum and it appears again...
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Matt Slick is not one to follow as a Christian, nor is Wikipedia. The subject has to be proven, or dissproven with the Bible.
Here are two scriptures to start with. Genesis 3:15, and;

Matthew 13:36-43

36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

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Re: Adam and Eve

#18

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:12 am

Domenic wrote:No, matter of fact with the help of science, we do. Did you know homosexuality is normal in animals? Here is the question. If humans were made perfect, how did this animal tendency get into humans? We learn how by a study of scriptures. When Adam was alive, and before he sinned, animals aged, and died, as do fish, birds, tree, and plants...that is how Adam knew what death was. After Adam and Eve Sinned, the unborn human family was doomed to age, and die...any why we have animal tendencies.
What took place in the Garden was not eating a symbolic fruit.
Actually, no, homosexuality is NOT normal in ANY animal species, although bisexual relations are, do NOT confuse the two.
Humans were NOT made perfect, only God is perfect.
Not even the angels are perfect.

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Re: Adam and Eve

#19

Post by Domenic » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:20 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Domenic wrote:No, matter of fact with the help of science, we do. Did you know homosexuality is normal in animals? Here is the question. If humans were made perfect, how did this animal tendency get into humans? We learn how by a study of scriptures. When Adam was alive, and before he sinned, animals aged, and died, as do fish, birds, tree, and plants...that is how Adam knew what death was. After Adam and Eve Sinned, the unborn human family was doomed to age, and die...any why we have animal tendencies.
What took place in the Garden was not eating a symbolic fruit.
Actually, no, homosexuality is NOT normal in ANY animal species, although bisexual relations are, do NOT confuse the two.
Humans were NOT made perfect, only God is perfect.
Not even the angels are perfect.
Yes God is perfect.
Adam, and Eve were also made perfect, as are all things God creates. As to animals being homosexual...you should first research before making comment:

10 Animals That Practice Homosexuality - Listverse
listverse.com/.../20/10-animals-that-practice-homosexuality Cached
Scientific research is spotting a surprising range of animals that engage in same-sex relationships. In this mind-expanding list, we will look at the ...

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Re: Adam and Eve

#20

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:34 am

If an animal species was homosexual, it would die out since it wouldn't be able to reproduce.
Show me which animals engage ONLY in same-sex relationships.

Nowhere does it say that Adam and Ever were perfect,please show me.
All of God's creation was good ( very good), but where does that equal perfect ??

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Re: Adam and Eve

#21

Post by Domenic » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:13 am

PaulSacramento wrote:If an animal species was homosexual, it would die out since it wouldn't be able to reproduce.
Show me which animals engage ONLY in same-sex relationships.

Nowhere does it say that Adam and Ever were perfect,please show me.
All of God's creation was good ( very good), but where does that equal perfect ??
I see you are not using reason. if all humans were homosexual, the human family would die out...but it is not. I did not say all animals were homosexual. Some of all animals are homosexual...if you are not going to use reason, nor what science says...then any dialogue between you, and me is just going to be a wast of time. Wasting time I will not do.You are free to believe whatever you want.

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Re: Adam and Eve

#22

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:21 am

Domenic wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:If an animal species was homosexual, it would die out since it wouldn't be able to reproduce.
Show me which animals engage ONLY in same-sex relationships.

Nowhere does it say that Adam and Ever were perfect,please show me.
All of God's creation was good ( very good), but where does that equal perfect ??
I see you are not using reason. if all humans were homosexual, the human family would die out...but it is not. I did not say all animals were homosexual. Some of all animals are homosexual...if you are not going to use reason, nor what science says...then any dialogue between you, and me is just going to be a wast of time. Wasting time I will not do.You are free to believe whatever you want.
Careful with your tone first off.
Second, I am using reason, that YOU don't see it is NOT my concern.
It is quite clear by the sceintific research that NO animal is homosexual ie: exclusively same-sex oriented.
The research shows that in SOME species same-sex relations do occur BUT under certain circumstances and in what would be more correctly called "bisexuality".
ex: from Wiki:
Applying the term homosexual to animals
The term homosexual was coined by Karl-Maria Kertbeny in 1868 to describe same-sex sexual attraction and sexual behavior in humans.[13] Its use in animal studies has been controversial for two main reasons: animal sexuality and motivating factors have been and remain poorly understood, and the term has strong cultural implications in western society that are irrelevant for species other than humans.[14] Thus homosexual behavior has been given a number of terms over the years. When describing animals, the term homosexual is preferred over gay, lesbian, and other terms currently in use, as these are seen as even more bound to human homosexuality.[15]

Animal preference and motivation is always inferred from behavior. In wild animals, researchers will as a rule not be able to map the entire life of an individual, and must infer from frequency of single observations of behavior. The correct usage of the term homosexual is that an animal exhibits homosexual behavior or even same-sex sexual behavior; however, this article conforms to the usage by modern research,[15][16][17][18][19] applying the term homosexuality to all sexual behavior (copulation, genital stimulation, mating games and sexual display behavior) between animals of the same sex. In most instances, it is presumed that the homosexual behavior is but part of the animal's overall sexual behavioral repertoire, making the animal "bisexual" rather than "homosexual" as the terms are commonly understood in humans,[18] but cases of homosexual preference and exclusive homosexual pairs are known.[20]
If you don't like having your position challenged and are going to be reacting this way, I suggest that this may NOT be the forum for you.

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Re: Adam and Eve

#23

Post by Domenic » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:25 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Domenic wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:If an animal species was homosexual, it would die out since it wouldn't be able to reproduce.
Show me which animals engage ONLY in same-sex relationships.

Nowhere does it say that Adam and Ever were perfect,please show me.
All of God's creation was good ( very good), but where does that equal perfect ??
I see you are not using reason. if all humans were homosexual, the human family would die out...but it is not. I did not say all animals were homosexual. Some of all animals are homosexual...if you are not going to use reason, nor what science says...then any dialogue between you, and me is just going to be a wast of time. Wasting time I will not do.You are free to believe whatever you want.
Careful with your tone first off.
Second, I am using reason, that YOU don't see it is NOT my concern.
It is quite clear by the sceintific research that NO animal is homosexual ie: exclusively same-sex oriented.
The research shows that in SOME species same-sex relations do occur BUT under certain circumstances and in what would be more correctly called "bisexuality".
ex: from Wiki:
Applying the term homosexual to animals
The term homosexual was coined by Karl-Maria Kertbeny in 1868 to describe same-sex sexual attraction and sexual behavior in humans.[13] Its use in animal studies has been controversial for two main reasons: animal sexuality and motivating factors have been and remain poorly understood, and the term has strong cultural implications in western society that are irrelevant for species other than humans.[14] Thus homosexual behavior has been given a number of terms over the years. When describing animals, the term homosexual is preferred over gay, lesbian, and other terms currently in use, as these are seen as even more bound to human homosexuality.[15]

Animal preference and motivation is always inferred from behavior. In wild animals, researchers will as a rule not be able to map the entire life of an individual, and must infer from frequency of single observations of behavior. The correct usage of the term homosexual is that an animal exhibits homosexual behavior or even same-sex sexual behavior; however, this article conforms to the usage by modern research,[15][16][17][18][19] applying the term homosexuality to all sexual behavior (copulation, genital stimulation, mating games and sexual display behavior) between animals of the same sex. In most instances, it is presumed that the homosexual behavior is but part of the animal's overall sexual behavioral repertoire, making the animal "bisexual" rather than "homosexual" as the terms are commonly understood in humans,[18] but cases of homosexual preference and exclusive homosexual pairs are known.[20]
If you don't like having your position challenged and are going to be reacting this way, I suggest that this may NOT be the forum for you.
No you are wrong. If you are not seeking out truth I suggest a Christian forum is not for you. I do not take a challenge of Gods word as directed toward me...it is toward God you challenge.

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Re: Adam and Eve

#24

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:47 am

It si probably not in your best interest to argue with a moderator of this forum about what this forum is about.
And Never, EVER equate YOUR position with it being God's because, guess what, all it is is YOUR position based on what YOU think to be correct.
One of the rules on this forum is that posters do NOT tell others that their faith and/or understanding is against God simply because it is NOT the same or expressed the same as theirs.
I would caution you on this type of posting.

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Re: Adam and Eve

#25

Post by Domenic » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:05 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:It si probably not in your best interest to argue with a moderator of this forum about what this forum is about.
And Never, EVER equate YOUR position with it being God's because, guess what, all it is is YOUR position based on what YOU think to be correct.
One of the rules on this forum is that posters do NOT tell others that their faith and/or understanding is against God simply because it is NOT the same or expressed the same as theirs.
I would caution you on this type of posting.
Yes I understand you are a moderator, and you can ban me from the forum...what you can not do is change Gods truth. Nor will I ever agree with what is against Gods written word. If the power to ban those from this forum who do not agree with you, than that in itself says a lot.

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Re: Adam and Eve

#26

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:35 pm

Domenic wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:It si probably not in your best interest to argue with a moderator of this forum about what this forum is about.
And Never, EVER equate YOUR position with it being God's because, guess what, all it is is YOUR position based on what YOU think to be correct.
One of the rules on this forum is that posters do NOT tell others that their faith and/or understanding is against God simply because it is NOT the same or expressed the same as theirs.
I would caution you on this type of posting.
Yes I understand you are a moderator, and you can ban me from the forum...what you can not do is change Gods truth. Nor will I ever agree with what is against Gods written word. If the power to ban those from this forum who do not agree with you, than that in itself says a lot.
That YOU don't understand what I said, says a lot.
I suggest you take my suggestion before you go through this little dance with a moderator with LESS patience than I.

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Re: Adam and Eve

#27

Post by Domenic » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:55 pm

No I do understand. As a moderator on this Christian forum, as moderators on all Christian forums…you do not want what is believed by the authors of the forum challenged by things that go against their major doctrines. Yes, I understand that.
May I suggest the forum post its major doctrines on the sign in sheet with a warning…”Believe this, or do not join.”
Whenever I see the word challenge…I see a red flag. It tells me, “Whatever I can prove will be rejected in favor of the present doctrines of those who challenge. Your stand is not a new one…it is the same position of many Christian religions. Have you not noticed, all these Christian religions claim to have the truth, and all others are false? To many Christian religions, yours are false, as theirs are to you. You both can’t be right.
Allow me to tell you the type of Christians there are. There are only twelve. Jesus hand picked these twelve. They were all different…these are the only type Christians. Each of us are like one of those twelve.
You say you are a Christian, and that alone is enough to make me believe you are a good person.
Let me tell you a short story:
I was at a poolside party sitting with the householder, and a friend of his. His friends name was Steve. Steve was a general Manager of several very large clothing stores. I don’t drink, so I was having coffee. The householder and Steve were talking about all the toys they had, and how much they cost…I was silent. The more they drank, the more the talked about money, money, money. Steve’s income was well over $600,000 a year. The Households double that. During my third cup of coffee I asked Steve, “What would you do if you lost everything?” He replied, “Everything?” “Yes,” I said…”everything.”
“Well,” replied Steve, “as long as I had my wife, and kids, I’d be fine.” “No,” I said…”Everything.”
About an hour later I standing by the pool drinking more coffee, and Steve came up to me. “That question you asked me, I don’t know what I would do?” “Think about it very hard I said…”You will lose everything.”
A month later the house holder called me, and said, “Did you hear? Steve lost his job, and has to give his house up. His wife left him.”

What would you do if someday you learned what I was saying was true? Would you hide it from those of your religion so they would not turn away from you, or would you tell them what you had learned? What would you do if your wife threatened to take the kids and leave unless you put that aside, and went back to believing something you knew was not true?
What would you do? I said I believe you are a Christian because you have said it. As a Christian you know God will make the truth know to you. If you don’t learn it on your own, he will force the issue, and make you learn truth one way or the other.
I have never tried to prove scripture true. I always try to prove scripture untrue. If I tried to prove scripture true, I would only prove what I want to believe true. In this way when I find a scripture is true…I know it is true. It is foolish to die for what you believe is true, but very easy to die for what you know is true. We are going to see a day come when Satan will destroy the concept of God…many very good people will fall away.
Let me tell you what the Anti-Christ will do. He will give mankind better health, longer life with a simple chip under the skin. This chip will change the DNA. When it does that, those with the chip will no longer be fully human…they will be like the tares…and marked by God for death. Don’t ask how I know this…I know it.

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Re: Adam and Eve

#28

Post by 1over137 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:29 pm

Domenic, please check out Mannerism under the Discussion guidelines http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... hp?f=6&t=4 and follow it.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Adam and Eve

#29

Post by Domenic » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:24 pm

Yes I have read the guide lines as you suggested. Thank you 1over 137.

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Re: Adam and Eve

#30

Post by Lonewolf » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:48 pm

Domenic wrote:No I do understand. As a moderator on this Christian forum, as moderators on all Christian forums…you do not want what is believed by the authors of the forum challenged by things that go against their major doctrines. Yes, I understand that.
May I suggest the forum post its major doctrines on the sign in sheet with a warning…”Believe this, or do not join.”
Whenever I see the word challenge…I see a red flag. It tells me, “Whatever I can prove will be rejected in favor of the present doctrines of those who challenge. Your stand is not a new one…it is the same position of many Christian religions. Have you not noticed, all these Christian religions claim to have the truth, and all others are false? To many Christian religions, yours are false, as theirs are to you. You both can’t be right.
Allow me to tell you the type of Christians there are. There are only twelve. Jesus hand picked these twelve. They were all different…these are the only type Christians. Each of us are like one of those twelve.
You say you are a Christian, and that alone is enough to make me believe you are a good person.
Let me tell you a short story:
I was at a poolside party sitting with the householder, and a friend of his. His friends name was Steve. Steve was a general Manager of several very large clothing stores. I don’t drink, so I was having coffee. The householder and Steve were talking about all the toys they had, and how much they cost…I was silent. The more they drank, the more the talked about money, money, money. Steve’s income was well over $600,000 a year. The Households double that. During my third cup of coffee I asked Steve, “What would you do if you lost everything?” He replied, “Everything?” “Yes,” I said…”everything.”
“Well,” replied Steve, “as long as I had my wife, and kids, I’d be fine.” “No,” I said…”Everything.”
About an hour later I standing by the pool drinking more coffee, and Steve came up to me. “That question you asked me, I don’t know what I would do?” “Think about it very hard I said…”You will lose everything.”
A month later the house holder called me, and said, “Did you hear? Steve lost his job, and has to give his house up. His wife left him.”

What would you do if someday you learned what I was saying was true? Would you hide it from those of your religion so they would not turn away from you, or would you tell them what you had learned? What would you do if your wife threatened to take the kids and leave unless you put that aside, and went back to believing something you knew was not true?
What would you do? I said I believe you are a Christian because you have said it. As a Christian you know God will make the truth know to you. If you don’t learn it on your own, he will force the issue, and make you learn truth one way or the other.
I have never tried to prove scripture true. I always try to prove scripture untrue. If I tried to prove scripture true, I would only prove what I want to believe true. In this way when I find a scripture is true…I know it is true. It is foolish to die for what you believe is true, but very easy to die for what you know is true. We are going to see a day come when Satan will destroy the concept of God…many very good people will fall away.
Let me tell you what the Anti-Christ will do. He will give mankind better health, longer life with a simple chip under the skin. This chip will change the DNA. When it does that, those with the chip will no longer be fully human…they will be like the tares…and marked by God for death. Don’t ask how I know this…I know it.
Hey Dom., how you doing? again, this is me just trying to throw my little opinion on things..

I hear what you're saying., the world is all not so nicey goodie two shoes out there, and that reality is fast bringing in the time of yet a mega anti-christ., the world with its secular viewpoints per say, and its diabolical science will pounce on the so-called mass Christian world out there., but I strongly believe that the "truly" anchored in Christ will prevail., we are how it is written ~> the salt of the earth. I find JW's hard at work to point out the doomed world soon on the horizon, and I find their teaching on the subject to be just as much a scare tactic as much as the teaching of everlasting torment in hell is. If hell and doom is all that one has to offer in order to convey the message of Christ, then truly I say that one has come out short in Love and in the Gospel of Good News.
Your outward profession of having put on Christ, has as yet to put off Plato from your heart!

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