Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#76

Post by RickD » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:19 pm

Physically, how would it be possible before conception?
John 5:24
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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#77

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:28 pm

Kenny wrote:Does the unborn become human, at conception or before conception?
Are you American?

FL y:-?
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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#78

Post by Kenny » Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:39 pm

RickD wrote:Physically, how would it be possible before conception?
Well if sperm is alive thus life begins before conception; I guess the question becomes when does this life become human. If you say it becomes human at the moment of concpetion I ask how is it different the moment before conception vs the moment after. I know it's a gradual process of becoming human but where do you draw the line?

K

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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#79

Post by Kenny » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:25 pm

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
Kenny wrote:Does the unborn become human, at conception or before conception?
Are you American?

FL y:-?
Yes!

K

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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#80

Post by RickD » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:55 am

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:Physically, how would it be possible before conception?
Well if sperm is alive thus life begins before conception; I guess the question becomes when does this life become human. If you say it becomes human at the moment of concpetion I ask how is it different the moment before conception vs the moment after. I know it's a gradual process of becoming human but where do you draw the line?

K
We're talking about human life. A sperm is not a human being. I suggest if you really want to get into this conversation, you google search fertilization and conception. That way you know the basics.

It's not a gradual process of becoming human. When a sperm and egg fuses, a new life is created. It happens at the moment of fertilization. It's not gradual.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#81

Post by jlay » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:43 am

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:Physically, how would it be possible before conception?
Well if sperm is alive thus life begins before conception; I guess the question becomes when does this life become human. If you say it becomes human at the moment of concpetion I ask how is it different the moment before conception vs the moment after. I know it's a gradual process of becoming human but where do you draw the line?

K
K,
Let's make sure we are using the terms the same way. When you say 'life' regarding a sperm, it is not the same thing as a person.
Never will a sperm, in and of itself, become a person. So, you are using the term 'life' in the weakest sense. When conception occurs, the fertilized egg has ALL the genetic information it will ever have as a human. A pollywog is life, but we certainly don't view it as retaining human rights. When we speak of "pro-life" we are using the term in the strongest sense referencing HUMAN life. Personhood.

From conception, yes, there is a gradual process of HUMAN development. But, it isn't a case of becoming human. A fertilized egg always results in human life.
The argument is when does personhood begin and when do human rights take affect?
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#82

Post by Kenny » Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:21 pm

jlay wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:Physically, how would it be possible before conception?
Well if sperm is alive thus life begins before conception; I guess the question becomes when does this life become human. If you say it becomes human at the moment of concpetion I ask how is it different the moment before conception vs the moment after. I know it's a gradual process of becoming human but where do you draw the line?

K
K,
Let's make sure we are using the terms the same way. When you say 'life' regarding a sperm, it is not the same thing as a person.
Never will a sperm, in and of itself, become a person. So, you are using the term 'life' in the weakest sense. When conception occurs, the fertilized egg has ALL the genetic information it will ever have as a human. A pollywog is life, but we certainly don't view it as retaining human rights. When we speak of "pro-life" we are using the term in the strongest sense referencing HUMAN life. Personhood.

From conception, yes, there is a gradual process of HUMAN development. But, it isn't a case of becoming human. A fertilized egg always results in human life.
The argument is when does personhood begin and when do human rights take affect?
So if I understand you correctly, you say when the egg becomes fertilized, that is when it become human?

Ken
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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#83

Post by RickD » Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:35 pm

kenny wrote/
So if I understand you correctly, you say when the egg becomes fertilized, that is when it become human?
Yes. Life begins at conception. And fertilization and conception are the same, for the sake of discussion.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#84

Post by Kurieuo » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:52 pm

Look it up in your biology textbooks. Human life is "conceived" at conception.
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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#85

Post by Kurieuo » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:56 pm

Ken, check out this video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZqY0p-QZ6k[/youtube]
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#86

Post by Kenny » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:38 pm

RickD wrote:
kenny wrote/
So if I understand you correctly, you say when the egg becomes fertilized, that is when it become human?
Yes. Life begins at conception. And fertilization and conception are the same, for the sake of discussion.
I believe the issue is, the law does not agree with you. A lot of people see it your way, but a lot of people do not.

K
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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#87

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:42 am

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
kenny wrote/
So if I understand you correctly, you say when the egg becomes fertilized, that is when it become human?
Yes. Life begins at conception. And fertilization and conception are the same, for the sake of discussion.
I believe the issue is, the law does not agree with you. A lot of people see it your way, but a lot of people do not.

K
The law doesn't agree? The law doesn't say anything. It's a scientific question.

Watch that video.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#88

Post by jlay » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:18 am

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
kenny wrote/
So if I understand you correctly, you say when the egg becomes fertilized, that is when it become human?
Yes. Life begins at conception. And fertilization and conception are the same, for the sake of discussion.
I believe the issue is, the law does not agree with you. A lot of people see it your way, but a lot of people do not.

K

Your reply infers that truth is determined by popular vote and/or judicial decree.
Truth is what corresponds to reality. Our laws OUGHT to correspond to reality.
It is a scientific fact that at conception the fertilized egg has ALL the genetic information to establish it as a unique human life form. It will never have any more than at that moment. Currently, the law gives the mother the right to terminate this unique life form. But, that doesn't mean that the law is right or in line with the truth. If a law is out of line with reality do you think we should support it? If your thinking is out of line with truth, do you think you should continue thinking this way?
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#89

Post by B. W. » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:53 am

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
kenny wrote/
So if I understand you correctly, you say when the egg becomes fertilized, that is when it become human?
Yes. Life begins at conception. And fertilization and conception are the same, for the sake of discussion.
I believe the issue is, the law does not agree with you. A lot of people see it your way, but a lot of people do not.

K
The dangers of moral relativism...

A lot of people see it one way, and a lot of people do not

So let's make a law that protects men from taking the responsibility of being men and raising a child from the women they used to impregnate. The call it a Woman's Right to Choose so women remain blind to the sexist nature of the law and its intent to reduce Hispanic and black populations in urban areas....

Have a nice day...
-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Pro-Life: The Logical Stance

#90

Post by Kenny » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:19 pm

jlay wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
kenny wrote/
So if I understand you correctly, you say when the egg becomes fertilized, that is when it become human?
Yes. Life begins at conception. And fertilization and conception are the same, for the sake of discussion.
I believe the issue is, the law does not agree with you. A lot of people see it your way, but a lot of people do not.

K

Your reply infers that truth is determined by popular vote and/or judicial decree.
Truth is what corresponds to reality. Our laws OUGHT to correspond to reality.
It is a scientific fact that at conception the fertilized egg has ALL the genetic information to establish it as a unique human life form. It will never have any more than at that moment. Currently, the law gives the mother the right to terminate this unique life form. But, that doesn't mean that the law is right or in line with the truth. If a law is out of line with reality do you think we should support it? If your thinking is out of line with truth, do you think you should continue thinking this way?
I wasn't making a judgment call of if it is right or wrong, truth or false; I was pointing out that the law doesn't agree that personhood begins at conception, so that is what is being enforced.

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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