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[1over137]

You are correct, it really is not that complicated. Father says he blinds the eyes of the unbelievers. As to my being 78, and near the grave...I do not fear death. Those who have been blinded should.
Those of the nature that Jesus is God, also believe they will go to heaven, or a hell of fire. These are not the teaching of my Lord Jesus...it is you who should fear death, because you do not serve Father out of love, but for a reward...life.
It is not complicated at all.

Dominic, you cannot know whether people here serve God out of love or for a reward. So, please refrain from such statements.

Also, do you plan to answer my question about which glory are we taking away from the Father?

[Domenic]

You said:
"Dominic, you cannot know whether people here serve God out of love or for a reward." I only know them by their post. It seems many think they know why, and how I serve father.
As to what glory is taken away from Father? All his glory. When people say Jesus is Father...that give all the glory to the son who was the first born of all creation as stated in scripture;

Colossians 1:15
“He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION; by means of him all other things were created in the Heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordship or governments or authorities. All (other) things have been created through him and for him.

You say this scripture is false, and Jesus was not a creation of Father?

[PaulSacramento]

You said:
"Dominic, you cannot know whether people here serve God out of love or for a reward." I only know them by their post. It seems many think they know why, and how I serve father.
As to what glory is taken away from Father? All his glory. When people say Jesus is Father...that give all the glory to the son who was the first born of all creation as stated in scripture;

Colossians 1:15
“He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION; by means of him all other things were created in the Heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordship or governments or authorities. All (other) things have been created through him and for him.

You say this scripture is false, and Jesus was not a creation of Father?

Where does it say Christ was created?
I read first born, I read that all was created though Him and for Him BUT nowhere does it state that He was created.

[PaulSacramento]

Please note that the word "other" is NOT in the manuscripts but added by the JW's in their NWT.
The Incomparable Christ
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

[1over137]

You said:
"Dominic, you cannot know whether people here serve God out of love or for a reward." I only know them by their post. It seems many think they know why, and how I serve father.
As to what glory is taken away from Father? All his glory. When people say Jesus is Father...that give all the glory to the son who was the first born of all creation as stated in scripture;

Colossians 1:15
“He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION; by means of him all other things were created in the Heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordship or governments or authorities. All (other) things have been created through him and for him.

You say this scripture is false, and Jesus was not a creation of Father?

And it seems you think you know why they serve.

And it seems you build your theology on one verse.

And we give glory to the Son as well as to the Father.

Dominic, people here showed you what "THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION" mean. Have you contemplated that? Have you posted your reaction on it somewhere, except that basically saying we are blind?

[RickD]

Domenic wrote:
As to what glory is taken away from Father? All his glory. When people say Jesus is Father...that give all the glory to the son who was the first born of all creation as stated in scripture;

Domenic,

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT JESUS IS THE FATHER!!!!

Please, for the love of God, at least get a basic understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity, so you can make an attempt to understand what we're saying.

[Domenic]

You said:
"Dominic, you cannot know whether people here serve God out of love or for a reward." I only know them by their post. It seems many think they know why, and how I serve father.
As to what glory is taken away from Father? All his glory. When people say Jesus is Father...that give all the glory to the son who was the first born of all creation as stated in scripture;

Colossians 1:15
“He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION; by means of him all other things were created in the Heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordship or governments or authorities. All (other) things have been created through him and for him.

You say this scripture is false, and Jesus was not a creation of Father?

Where does it say Christ was created?
I read first born, I read that all was created though Him and for Him BUT nowhere does it state that He was created.

Do you not see the word CREATION in Colossians 1:15? "THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION."
The word CREATION means something that was CREATED. Are you saying you can't see that?

[Domenic]

Domenic wrote:
As to what glory is taken away from Father? All his glory. When people say Jesus is Father...that give all the glory to the son who was the first born of all creation as stated in scripture;

Domenic,

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT JESUS IS THE FATHER!!!!

Please, for the love of God, at least get a basic understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity, so you can make an attempt to understand what we're saying.

You are saying Jesus, and father are the same person. Jesus was created by Father. Jesus is Fathers son. Jesus said, "DO NOT PRAY TO ME< BUT TO THE FATHER THROUGH ME...I understand your trinity. It is false.

[1over137]

You said:
"Dominic, you cannot know whether people here serve God out of love or for a reward." I only know them by their post. It seems many think they know why, and how I serve father.
As to what glory is taken away from Father? All his glory. When people say Jesus is Father...that give all the glory to the son who was the first born of all creation as stated in scripture;

Colossians 1:15
“He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION; by means of him all other things were created in the Heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordship or governments or authorities. All (other) things have been created through him and for him.

You say this scripture is false, and Jesus was not a creation of Father?

Where does it say Christ was created?
I read first born, I read that all was created though Him and for Him BUT nowhere does it state that He was created.

Do you not see the word CREATION in Colossians 1:15? "THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION."
The word CREATION means something that was CREATED. Are you saying you can't see that?

Creation was created.

[RickD]

Domenic wrote:
As to what glory is taken away from Father? All his glory. When people say Jesus is Father...that give all the glory to the son who was the first born of all creation as stated in scripture;

Domenic,

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT JESUS IS THE FATHER!!!!

Please, for the love of God, at least get a basic understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity, so you can make an attempt to understand what we're saying.

You are saying Jesus, and father are the same person. Jesus was created by Father. Jesus is Fathers son. Jesus said, "DO NOT PRAY TO ME< BUT TO THE FATHER THROUGH ME...I understand your trinity. It is false.

No, you don't understand the Trinity. If you understood it, you wouldn't say that trinitarians believe the Father and Son are the same person. The Trinity is God in 3 persons.

I'm not telling you to believe in the trinity. But for the love of honest conversation, please make an attempt to understand what the Doctrine of the Trinity actually says.

[Domenic]

My understanding of your trinity is very clear. You make Jesus your god. You do not believe the scriptures that state Jesus was the first born, of all creation.
Believe what, and how you will. You stand alone before YHWH, the living God...you can not say you have not been told the truth...you have. There are those that will witness you have.

[1over137]

My understanding of your trinity is very clear. You make Jesus your god. You do not believe the scriptures that state Jesus was the first born, of all creation.
Believe what, and how you will. You stand alone before YHWH, the living God...you can not say you have not been told the truth...you have. There are those that will witness you have.

We kept showing you many Bible verses and you kept showing us one. Or I missed some?

[PaulSacramento]

You said:
"Dominic, you cannot know whether people here serve God out of love or for a reward." I only know them by their post. It seems many think they know why, and how I serve father.
As to what glory is taken away from Father? All his glory. When people say Jesus is Father...that give all the glory to the son who was the first born of all creation as stated in scripture;

Colossians 1:15
“He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION; by means of him all other things were created in the Heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordship or governments or authorities. All (other) things have been created through him and for him.

You say this scripture is false, and Jesus was not a creation of Father?

Where does it say Christ was created?
I read first born, I read that all was created though Him and for Him BUT nowhere does it state that He was created.

Do you not see the word CREATION in Colossians 1:15? "THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION."
The word CREATION means something that was CREATED. Are you saying you can't see that?

Dominic,
READ what you wrote, please.
Christ is the FIRST BORN of creation and through HIM all was created, ie: He was BORN and then the created universe came to be THROUGH Him.
DO you NOT SEE that since that is what it explicitly says.

Look at Hebrews:
God’s Final Word in His Son
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

Look at what is written: Christ is the EXACT representation of His (God's) nature, which means He is exactly like GOD with the SAME nature, a created being can NOT have the same nature as its creator.

[PaulSacramento]

My understanding of your trinity is very clear. You make Jesus your god. You do not believe the scriptures that state Jesus was the first born, of all creation.
Believe what, and how you will. You stand alone before YHWH, the living God...you can not say you have not been told the truth...you have. There are those that will witness you have.

You keep saying that the trinity means that Jesus is His father so NO, you don't have any understanding of the Trinity.

[Domenic]

Paulsacramento, you said:
"Look at what is written: Christ is the EXACT representation of His (God's) nature, which means He is exactly like GOD with the SAME nature, a created being can NOT have the same nature as its creator."

Why can God the father not create his son to have the same nature as himself? Does his power stop at some point?
Do you understand what you just said?