Leviticus and gayness

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Leviticus and gayness

#1

Post by ultimate777 » Sat May 12, 2012 11:27 pm

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Edit postReport this postReply with quote Leviticus and Homosexuality
by ultimate777 » Thu May 10, 2012 6:29 pm

Leviticus 20:13 says :

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.


What is our excuse for not enforcing it?


A Congressman on some armed services committee whom I suspect was conservative live on C-SPAN or C-SPAN II a few nights ago implied it not being in the New Testament negated it.

A Congesswoman had quoted it who I suspect does not actually believe it.

Neither person was allowed time to explain themselves :shakehead:

I hope all posts address:

1. Is it true?

2. If its not, why not?

3. If it is, what legitimate reasons for disobeying it are there if any?

I put the stuff in there about the Congress people to give you background on why I post this.

I hope that this will not be considered an excuse to ignore my main points, although if you give what IMHO is due
comments about the main points, I might discuss the side issues with you.

I suspect my question makes you want to seek the services of the law firm, Duck, Dodge, & Hyde :pound:

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#2

Post by neo-x » Sun May 13, 2012 5:11 am

neo-x » Fri May 11, 2012 3:25 pm

what's our excuse for not enforcing it?


For the the stoning/killing part:
First ,it's a noob question, answered many times here, if you had just searched for it. Second, you are not Jew, the law does not apply to you. Third the law was given in the O.T with regards to specific nations that were in the area. Israel was not a DEMOCRATIC nation. They were THEOCRATIC nations. Fourth, Christ cleared his intent when he clarified IN John 8, what laws like this actually implied. Fifth you have to consider the GRACE Factor. Christ brought Grace and mercy, something that was not for all in the O.T.

Last of all, do some research in to these things before just pointing out the obvious
Duh! didnt you read this? :lol:
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#3

Post by cheezerrox » Sun May 13, 2012 9:44 am

It's fine to be looking for answers, but to ignore all the ones you were already given and just start the same thread doesn't really make sense. You get plenty, and if they weren't satisfying to you, at least respond to them and say why.
"The prophet is a man who feels fiercely. G-d has thrust a burden upon his soul, and he is bowed and stunned at man's fierce greed. Frightful is the agony of man; no human voice can convey its full terror. Prophecy is the voice that G-d has lent to the silent agony, a voice to the plundered poor, to the profaned riches of the world. It is a form of living, a crossing point of G-d and man."
- Abraham Joshua Heschel

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#4

Post by ultimate777 » Sun May 13, 2012 8:50 pm

cheezerrox wrote:It's fine to be looking for answers, but to ignore all the ones you were already given and just start the same thread doesn't really make sense. You get plenty, and if they weren't satisfying to you, at least respond to them and say why.

I meant to post this thread on another forum. AFAIC the answers for the most part were simply irrelevant and are thus best ignored. To me, my opinion trumps yours here. You do not have Godlike all-knowingness any more than I do to "know" otherwise. I think it might be in part due to my remarks about inerrancy that things went astray :oops: I tried to start over in another forum leaving them out.

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#5

Post by cheezerrox » Mon May 14, 2012 12:28 pm

ultimate777 wrote:I meant to post this thread on another forum. AFAIC the answers for the most part were simply irrelevant and are thus best ignored. To me, my opinion trumps yours here. You do not have Godlike all-knowingness any more than I do to "know" otherwise. I think it might be in part due to my remarks about inerrancy that things went astray :oops: I tried to start over in another forum leaving them out.
That's all right, simple mistake.
And as far as not being satisfied with your answers, again, that's fine if you feel like the responses were mostly irrelevant and didn't answer your question, but you were given some legitimate answers that were straight to your question. Now, if you found them unsatisfactory, that's a different story. But you didn't even respond to any of your answers to your question, so, it doesn't really seem like your honestly looking for an answer. Also, to say that your opinion trumps all of ours here, and then go on to imply that we think we're smarter or better than you, is really kinda unnecessary and out of place. If anyone here talked down to you, then let me say that it certainly doesn't represent the people here as a whole. But, replying to the answers in your thread may help clear up some confusions.
"The prophet is a man who feels fiercely. G-d has thrust a burden upon his soul, and he is bowed and stunned at man's fierce greed. Frightful is the agony of man; no human voice can convey its full terror. Prophecy is the voice that G-d has lent to the silent agony, a voice to the plundered poor, to the profaned riches of the world. It is a form of living, a crossing point of G-d and man."
- Abraham Joshua Heschel

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#6

Post by ultimate777 » Wed May 16, 2012 8:24 am

cheezerrox wrote:
ultimate777 wrote:I meant to post this thread on another forum. AFAIC the answers for the most part were simply irrelevant and are thus best ignored. To me, my opinion trumps yours here. You do not have Godlike all-knowingness any more than I do to "know" otherwise. I think it might be in part due to my remarks about inerrancy that things went astray :oops: I tried to start over in another forum leaving them out.
That's all right, simple mistake.
And as far as not being satisfied with your answers, again, that's fine if you feel like the responses were mostly irrelevant and didn't answer your question, but you were given some legitimate answers that were straight to your question. Now, if you found them unsatisfactory, that's a different story. But you didn't even respond to any of your answers to your question, so, it doesn't really seem like your honestly looking for an answer.

No, I think responding to them would encourage behavior I object to, namely more answers I consider irrelevant and less I don't.

Also, to say that your opinion trumps all of ours here,


No, my opinion of my feelings does, only God knows whether I am right.


and then go on to imply that we think we're smarter or better than you, is really kinda unnecessary and out of place. If anyone here talked down to you, then let me say that it certainly doesn't represent the people here as a whole.

You personally tried to de-legitimise my feelings that the most of the answers were not worthy of my time or attention.
AFAIC only God can say they were and make it stick.

But, replying to the answers in your thread may help clear up some confusions.

Have you heard the saying "With friends like this I don't need enemies?"

Sometimes I think Christianity could say the same. In part, due to such things as the response I'm getting here. But that is just IMHO.

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#7

Post by RickD » Wed May 16, 2012 8:38 am

ultimate777,

You asked this question in your original post:
Leviticus 20:13 says :

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.


What is our excuse for not enforcing it?
Then, neo-x responded with this answer that he originally responded to, in the other thread:
neo-x » Fri May 11, 2012 3:25 pm

what's our excuse for not enforcing it?


For the the stoning/killing part:
First ,it's a noob question, answered many times here, if you had just searched for it. Second, you are not Jew, the law does not apply to you. Third the law was given in the O.T with regards to specific nations that were in the area. Israel was not a DEMOCRATIC nation. They were THEOCRATIC nations. Fourth, Christ cleared his intent when he clarified IN John 8, what laws like this actually implied. Fifth you have to consider the GRACE Factor. Christ brought Grace and mercy, something that was not for all in the O.T.

Last of all, do some research in to these things before just pointing out the obvious
You haven't said anything in response to neo-x's answer. Are you looking for something else? Did we not understand what you were asking?
Maybe you could rephrase your question, if Neo-x's answer wasn't what you were looking for.

As far as your original question, neo-x's answer was more than adequate, IMO.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#8

Post by ultimate777 » Wed May 16, 2012 7:48 pm

RickD wrote:ultimate777,

You asked this question in your original post:
Leviticus 20:13 says :

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.


What is our excuse for not enforcing it?
Then, neo-x responded with this answer that he originally responded to, in the other thread:
neo-x » Fri May 11, 2012 3:25 pm

what's our excuse for not enforcing it?


For the the stoning/killing part:
First ,it's a noob question, answered many times here, if you had just searched for it. Second, you are not Jew, the law does not apply to you. Third the law was given in the O.T with regards to specific nations that were in the area. Israel was not a DEMOCRATIC nation. They were THEOCRATIC nations. Fourth, Christ cleared his intent when he clarified IN John 8, what laws like this actually implied. Fifth you have to consider the GRACE Factor. Christ brought Grace and mercy, something that was not for all in the O.T.

Last of all, do some research in to these things before just pointing out the obvious
You haven't said anything in response to neo-x's answer. Are you looking for something else? Did we not understand what you were asking?
Maybe you could rephrase your question, if Neo-x's answer wasn't what you were looking for.

As far as your original question, neo-x's answer was more than adequate, IMO.

The answer was insulting, see : Last of all, do some research in to these things before just pointing out the obvious.

As for this: First ,it's a noob question, answered many times here, if you had just searched for it.

How do you do that?

And I am asking this, in part, to see what kinds of people we have here, to an unfortunately large extent, too many have been weighed and found wanting.

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#9

Post by RickD » Wed May 16, 2012 8:51 pm

And I am asking this, in part, to see what kinds of people we have here, to an unfortunately large extent, too many have been weighed and found wanting.
The only thing found wanting when I'm weighed, is my wanting to lose a few pounds. :pound:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#10

Post by neo-x » Wed May 16, 2012 9:55 pm

The answer was insulting, see : Last of all, do some research in to these things before just pointing out the obvious.

As for this: First ,it's a noob question, answered many times here, if you had just searched for it.

How do you do that?
There is no insult, its only a good measure to do some search on the forum or Google it up before jumping in on a topic. What you wrote, was so cliched, that I had to assume you did not search the main forum, this has been answered before.
And I am asking this, in part, to see what kinds of people we have here
So you are actually testing the patience of Christian members, by bringing up cliched arguments. If someone objects or tells you otherwise then he is "FOUND WANTING". y[-X
to an unfortunately large extent, too many have been weighed and found wanting.
Who died and made you the judge of this?
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#11

Post by Frogsterking » Sat May 19, 2012 11:54 am

"gayness"

lol

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#12

Post by ultimate777 » Sat May 19, 2012 12:46 pm

Sorry I waited so long to answer, it was not deliberate.
neo-x wrote:
The answer was insulting, see : Last of all, do some research in to these things before just pointing out the obvious.

As for this: First ,it's a noob question, answered many times here, if you had just searched for it.

How do you do that?
There is no insult, its only a good measure to do some search on the forum or Google it up before jumping in on a topic. What you wrote, was so cliched,

Prove it was cliched. Oh, how silly of me. Of course, you obviously have some falacious reason why you won't even try. Or perhaps you'll just ignore this.

that I had to assume you did not search the main forum, this has been answered before.

You deny an insult with another insult.
And I am asking this, in part, to see what kinds of people we have here
So you are actually testing the patience of Christian members, by bringing up cliched arguments. If someone objects or tells you otherwise then he is "FOUND WANTING". y[-X

AGAIN!!
to an unfortunately large extent, too many have been weighed and found wanting.
Who died and made you the judge of this?

Whoever was neccessary.


reagarding: that I had to assume you did not search the main forum


Do you mean for such things as the quote from Leviticus, and what we should do about them?
Quite true, quite true. Do you know why I did not?

1. I did not know such a thing was possible.

2.I don't know how. Not then, not now. Do I make myself clear?

To be fair I think I may re-look to see if any of the replies are, IMHO, on target.
If not I may deconstruct one here to show why not.

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#13

Post by ultimate777 » Sat May 19, 2012 1:05 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Report this postReply with quote Re: Leviticus and Homosexuality
by neo-x » Fri May 11, 2012 4:25 am

what's our excuse for not enforcing it?


For the the stoning/killing part:
First ,it's a noob question, answered many times here, if you had just searched for it. Second, you are not Jew, the law does not apply to you. Third the law was given in the O.T with regards to specific nations that were in the area. Israel was not a DEMOCRATIC nation. They were THEOCRATIC nations.

I thought the Bible is believed by most who think it inerrant to apply to all people, all places, all times, and yes, even all faiths or lack of same, and that being in this place instead of that, this era or that, and all the rest of it, one goes against it at one's peril, and ignorance is no excuse.

Fourth, Christ cleared his intent when he clarified IN John 8, what laws like this actually implied.

I'll look into that.

Fifth you have to consider the GRACE Factor. Christ brought Grace and mercy, something that was not for all in the O.T.

Last of all, do some research in to these things before just pointing out the obvious "Stand up for what you believe in even if you are standing alone"
Sophie Scholl

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#14

Post by mandelduke » Wed May 30, 2012 1:11 pm

John 8:7
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."


James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.




Matthew 7:2-5

2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.(A)

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

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Re: Leviticus and gayness

#15

Post by Mitzy » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:15 pm

http://bible-truths.com/homosex.htm

Try reading all that maybe it will answer some of your questions.

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