After Death

Discussions about the Bible, and any issues raised by Scripture.
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Rascus
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After Death

#1

Post by Rascus » Sat May 14, 2011 3:52 pm

What happens to a believer in Christ after death? Does the person remain in the grave till the return of Christ or are they taken to Paradise or Heaven?

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Re: After Death

#2

Post by Katabole » Sun May 15, 2011 6:30 am

Hi Rascus

When it comes to questions of life after death there are many differing opinions within Christian theological schools.

I am of the belief that when a believer in Christ dies, they go to the place Jesus called Paradise. I believe Paradise is in the heavenly dimension, that is, Paradise is in Heaven. Jesus gives an example of it in Luke ch 16; the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. I believe the rich man was buring in his own shame; not burning in Hell, because he was on the other side of Paradise. He was not in Hell (the grave), nor had he been sentenced to the lake of fire.

Those who die and believe in Christ attain what is called the first resurrection. They have a spiritual body in that dimension and their soul is immortal (unable to die). The Bible makes it clear that when our flesh bodies die, they go back to the ground they came from because our flesh is the organic matter that we have consumed throughout our lives and we have no further need of it. The flesh remains in the grave. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God nor can it stand before a Holy God.The soul, unlike the flesh, returns to God who gave it. It does not sleep in the grave.

I do not believe in the rapture theory, nor am I a proponent of the "Hell" doctrine. And in no way do I believe in physical resurrection of any kind. Only Christ Himself was resurrected physically and that was to prove that He rose from the dead.

Therefore, those who die and do not believe in Christ also go to Paradise in Heaven. The difference is non believers do not make it to the good side of Paradise. They go to the 'not-so-good' side of Paradise. Unlike believers, they have a spiritual body as well, but they have a mortal (liable to die) soul. They do not take part in the first resurrection because they didn't beleive in Christ during their lives here on Earth.

I believe that when Christ returns to the Earth during the millenium (the thousand years), He is going to bring both those who died and believed in Christ and those who didn't believe back here with him. Christ and those who believed in Him are going to teach those who didn't believe during that thousand years. Once the thousand years are over, those who were taught are going to be tested one last time. Those who were taught and overcome at that time, will attain the second resurrection, that is, they will then be given an immortal soul. Those who didn't overcome are going to consumed by God in the lake of fire and suffer the second death, that is, the death of their mortal soul.

The second death does not apply to those who believed in Christ because as I stated, they have an immortal soul, unlike non believers who have a mortal soul.

There are many within Christianity that write off non-believers, claiming they have no chance of redemption if they didn't believe in Christ during their lifetimes and that Christ sentences them to Hell as soon as they die. Scripture makes it crystal clear that God does not judge or sentence any soul until the Great White Throne Judgment, after the thousand years are over.

2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (KJV)



Hope that helps you.
Well it may be the devil or it may be the Lord but you know you gotta serve somebody. Bob Dylan

Every one that is of the truth hears my voice. Jesus from John 18:37

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Re: After Death

#3

Post by B. W. » Sun May 15, 2011 1:49 pm

Rascus...

Here a few links on this took from the Forum other the past years that may help you as well.


infinite punishment of finite sins

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... &start=375


going to hell

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 22&t=32718


Near Death experiences and Christianity

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =3&t=34090
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Re: After Death

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Post by kevdog19 » Sat May 28, 2011 7:04 pm

emanuel swedenborg believed that people who believed in god because of logic go to the spirtual side of heaven, while those that believe in god because of faith go to the heavenly side of heaven which was better. I don't know if this statment has any validity swedenborg was a bit weird in the head, just some food for thought.

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Re: After Death

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Post by CeT-To » Sun May 29, 2011 3:59 am

Hmm that doesn't sounds right, since the Christian has faith and logical reasons to believe. For example, the ressurection of Jesus. We have good evidence that happened and logical arguments that the naturalistic accounts for the dissappearence of the Jesus body and the reapperence to over 500 people plus more fail. But, we've never seen Jesus.
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

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Re: After Death

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Post by B. W. » Sun May 29, 2011 7:25 am

kevdog19 wrote:emanuel swedenborg believed that people who believed in god because of logic go to the spirtual side of heaven, while those that believe in god because of faith go to the heavenly side of heaven which was better. I don't know if this statment has any validity swedenborg was a bit weird in the head, just some food for thought.
As I understand Emanuel Swedenborg on this subject, he was in grave error regarding people being able to leave hell or heaven of their own free will. Next, his works must have inspired Joseph Smith as well. His writings are 'HEADY' and at times hard to discern... Such writings would have an appeal to those inclined to rely of human self justification verses God's work of justification too...

See this link on Swedenborg

http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/sweden.htm
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Re: After Death

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Post by Canuckster1127 » Sun May 29, 2011 7:56 am

I'm nop expert on Swedenborg, but coincidentilly enough, through my research as a genealogist, I've found a branch of my family who were Swedenborgian missionaries and pastors. They were originally from England, where the first was an independent pastor, (probably in the methodist movement). They then came to the US in the late 1820's and it's possible they were directly influenced by John Chapman (also known as Johnny Appleseed) who was a Swedenborger. They went back and forth a few times back to Norfolk England where the small church they had was converted by the former pastor to Swedenborgianism until the congregation lost their lease for the reason as well as some of the primary contributors and then the church failed. I've worked with the Swedenborgian Society in London and have been able to find some correspondance from my family members.

Swedenborgianism is a form of Spiritism that is not at all orthodox and tied in some cases to Mesmerism. I've read a little to understand it on my own and put context to the family history. I'm not ashamed of what I can't control of course, and they seemed sincere but I'm saddened when I see what they came from and into what they went. The fruits in my family through a few generations were several tragedies which were sad to watch. I don't know how directly related they are and of course there can be other reasons but it appears to have been a tough life and the little work started in the US failed before too long too.
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Re: After Death

#8

Post by kevdog19 » Sun May 29, 2011 2:56 pm

yeah swedenborg said angels reveiled to him that there were humanoid creatures on mercury for example so obviosoly he's flawed. His clasification of people who come to god through logic or faith and their seperation is somewhat interesting though. I also like his 4 types of love explanation.

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Re: After Death

#9

Post by zacchaeus » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:55 pm

Hmmmmm......

may this bless you all, I pray this will help and tear veils off of eyes who are spiritually blinded!!!

HELL: What will it be like??? I'm glad you asked...

C.O.R.E. Youth and One Way Ministries

WHAT WILL HELL BE LIKE?
If God is real than Heaven and Hell are real literal places!
Luke 10:15 and in the gospels Jesus describes Hell as being down.
One of our goals is to scare Hell out of you to where you do not want to go there under any circumstances jokingly or not. One reason churches have a problem preaching Hell is because satan doesn’t want us to learn about him or Hell. I feel like we are on his radar. Look at our church funds, family issues, marriages, recent tragedies in our church, and I don’t think he wants us to be talking about him or Hell today. The devil uses cartoons to make Hell seem fun and less real and we actually laugh at it. The problem is Hell is all too real and there is nothing neither fun nor funny about it.

Five Truths about Hell
1) Hell awaits unbelievers – same as Heaven awaits believers. What is present in Heaven is absent in Hell, and what is present in Hell is absent in Heaven. Cs Lewis- Sin is mans saying to God, “Go away and leave me alone”, and Hell is God saying, “You may have your wish”. Mathew 7:13-14 …”wide is the gate to destruction and many will enter, but small is the gate that leads to life and few will find it”. With that being said, Earth is the only Heaven many unbelievers will experience and Earth is the only Hell many believers will experience.
2) Hell features unquenchable fire – or inextinguishable (cannot be put out, destructive). Jesus most common description of Hell is it is a place of fire. Matthew 18:8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.” Mark 9:43 “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.”
3) Hell features utter darkness- complete absence of light, while Heaven has perpetual light. The sun and moon will serve no purpose. Gods light will shine everlasting light in Heaven. Completely pure and forever. 2 Peter 2:17 “These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.” Matthew 25:29-30 “For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Darkness presents since of aloneness. There will be fire and pain 24/7 100% forever.
4) Hell features unmanageable pain- Look at Luke 16 Rich man and Lazarus. Luke 16:22-28 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.” Misery loves company and friendship comforts pain, but you will be alone. We cannot even bare the simplest of pains on Earth and how worldly of us to comfort our pain to live a little more peaceful. The world has comforted pain with the technology of medicine. We call this pain management, yet in Hell it is unmanageable pain.
5) Hell punishes eternally- Matthew 25:46 “"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
WHAT HAPPENS TO A NONBELIEVER IF THEY DIE TODAY?
They die and their soul immediately enters hell away from the presence of God. Their disembodied non physical soul goes into a non physical place called Hell. Their body is buried so body and soul are separated until reunited to stand trial. They fail and their name is not in the book of life. They are cast into Hell where they live alone in unquenchable fire, utter darkness, and unmanageable pain for eternity.

Last Thought: God is infinitely Holy, so sinning against God is infinitely offending, and deserves infinite wrath!!!

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/hellfire.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_5JPeRs ... r_embedded :amen:

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