Are we in the end times?

Discussions about the Bible, and any issues raised by Scripture.
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Phoenix
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Are we in the end times?

#1

Post by Phoenix » Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:18 pm

Greetings, I just joined. I have a question for the posters on this board. As the title of this thread asks, "are we in the end times?" Below I have the verses from a site about what signs to look for, for the end times. In bold and italics I have a response from someone who is skeptical that we are in the end times. I was wondering if those here could help me with the debate. Essentially the skeptic takes each "sign" as not being a "sign" of the end times. His argument is that these things have happened in the past so how can we be in the end times.

Does anyone here have more evidence that things are getting worse then they were in the past?

Thanks.


FALSE PROPHETS AND CHRISTS

Matthew 24:5 "For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many."

Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many."


In the last several years many have claimed to be the Messiah. Jim Jones and David Koresh are examples of these false christs as well as countless others who are not as newsworthy.

-people that use religion in wicked ways has been going on for centuries.. why is this now a sign of the end times?




3. FAMINES

Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."

The undernourished are not limited to Africa, however. A large portion of the worlds 5 billion people suffers from a shortage of food.


right now the world population is actually 6.4 billion. You can find historical records of famine throughout history. and with over 6 billion people in the world, its not unusual that famine occurs in large numbers.

1. EXISTENCE OF A 200,000,000 MAN ARMY IN THE EAST

Revelation 9:16 "And the number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them."



An army of that size had never existed until China's army reached that number in the 1960's.



2. REDEVELOPMENT OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE (EUROPEAN COMMUNITY)

Daniel 2:32-33 "The head of the statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay."


and this verse means exactly what?????



3. RETURN OF THE ONE PURE LANGUAGE, HEBREW, TO ISRAEL

Zephaniah 3:9 "For then I will return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent."


a "pure language" could mean anything... so why do you think this means the restoration of the hebrew language in Israel?



6. INCREASE IN KNOWLEDGE AND TRAVEL

Daniel 12:4 "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."


knowledge of what??? another verse that could mean ANYTHING.



1. GODLESSNESS IN THE LAST DAYS

II Timothy 3:1-5,7 "But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."



this has been going on since before the days of Noah. Why is this all of the sudden a sign of the end times? also you must consider that world population has grown tremendously and this most likely has an effect on statistics of criminal acts.

2. APOSTASY (FALLING AWAY FROM THE FAITH)


religions change all the time... this is nothing new.


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#2

Post by Mastermind » Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:20 pm

I'd help you, but I agree with the other dude. Sorry.

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#3

Post by Deborah » Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:23 pm

FALSE PROPHETS AND CHRISTS
I agree there have been a quite few false prophets and Christs.
RETURN OF THE ONE PURE LANGUAGE, HEBREW, TO ISRAEL
Could be, because many Christians are learning both Hebrew and Greek so they can read and translate the bible for themselves.
EXISTENCE OF A 200,000,000 MAN ARMY IN THE EAST
Yep it's a worry lol but this is the time we should remember
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Mat 10:39 He who finds his life shall lose it. And he who loses his life for My sake shall find it.

Code: Select all

REDEVELOPMENT OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE (EUROPEAN COMMUNITY)
Possibly

Code: Select all

INCREASE IN KNOWLEDGE AND TRAVEL
Blame it on the Internet and planes.

Code: Select all

GODLESSNESS IN THE LAST DAYS
I think this has always been, but today it is more noticeable because of Internet, Television and radio. Not forgetting the freedom of information, a lot of stuff used to be covered up.

APOSTASY (FALLING AWAY FROM THE FAITH)
Christianity has never changed; we translate Gods word incorrectly and never bother to keep studying it so we can understand Gods word.

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#4

Post by RGeeB » Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:45 am

The key is the increased frequency and the simultaneous occurance of the events. Jesus likens them to birth pains. Another sign which I've observed is that the love of many is growing cold, within families and communities.

One sign to look out for which will clearly signify the last of the last days is the universal persecution of Christians.
Maranatha!

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#5

Post by JBirdAngel » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:40 am

i personally dont really know anythinga bout teh end days, except that i cannot wait until either i die or Christ returns... of course hoping that i am going to Heaven.

My question is that havnt we technically been in the end times since Jesus came? I mean hasnt all of this stuff been happening since then, and perhaps before then as well probably, but Jesus came first, and then will return, and no one knows when so we have been in the end times since He came kind of havent we? Also revelations says alot, really that i dont understand, its hard to know what is literal and what isnt, like the New Jerusalem, is that a real city, or just a symbolism for the greatness of Heaven, i think it is a real city, as i do not think we are going to be changed, i think we will still be human and still have bodies, we will no longer be corrupted by sin, so in that way we will change, but we arent going to become another creature, we will always be humans, so the things we need now we will need in Heaven, we will eat and drink and so on. But sin does corrupt as and such so things will be different, we sleep to restore our body, Adam slept in the Garden, but He was getting major surgery done, i do not know if without sin if our bodies will need a recharge, but i do believe that God created everything for a reason, i think the reason that we eate and take nutrients from food is because in Heaven we will truely eat from the tree of life and the nutrients will keep us alive forever, without sin we wont die and wont disease, but we will still eat and such, i mean God did create things for our pleasure, He didnt have to, we could be brains in jars that cant move or have contact with others, but God specifically made food taste good, one man and one woman fall in love, sex feel good, child birth being wonderful, and us taking nutrients from food and so on. I do not believe all of the things He created is going away, i do not believe He made a mistake, i believe things will be better. Child birth will probably go back to not being as painful, food will taste even better, the one man one woman relationship will beyond the laws of marriage, sex will be far greater between the one man and one woman meant to be each other, perhaps not only will there bodies mingle but their souls as well, who knows, but sin corrupted everything and downgraded it, but the things that God created still exist in some form, and i dont think it makes sense to believe they will disappear... but im getting off on the wrong thing sorry.

Another thing about Revelations is as far as i am aware we do not know the timeline it follows, it lists events that will happen, but do we really know what span of time will come inbetween them? Also the trumpets that get blown, will we actually hear them? If so then id say we are not in the end times yet, as atleast in my years of life i havnt known of a universally heard trumpet blow.

But the first trumpet blow could refer to something that happen 1000 years ago, and the second could refer to something that hasnt truely happened yet.

I do not know anything about it like i said, but the point is that no one knows when Jesus is coming back, so what does it really do for us to figure out if we are in the end times or not, i think the point of it probably more so is to let us know that it is going to be hard but not to loose faith.

Events like the tsunami, do seem quite drastic and such, but i dont know how it compares to like pompeii and such, so i really dont know, perhaps we are perhaps we arent, no one can know for sure. Some think Babylon falling refers to 9-11 others think Babylon refers to all set up socities or something like that, i dont remember what they said, i think that we are living in hard times, or atleast some of us, some people go through life without really knowing what life is like, but we all suffer, unfortunatly i imagine we will suffer more, but maybe we will be lucky and Jesus will come back today... i dont know

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#6

Post by Anonymous » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:16 pm

It is possible we are closer to the " end times" than we were 2000 years ago when John the babtist was proclaiming it. Yes we have also had alot of country pains and false profits and many other biblical knowledges to the end times. I believe that the end is only the beggining for us, So hopefully the "beggning is near".

Susan

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#7

Post by Prodigal Son » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:09 pm

RGeeB,
one sign to look for which will clearly signify the end times is the universal persecution of Christians.
is it just me, or has this started? for some reason, i see it everywhere i look.

some friend of mine who follows some eastern religion said that the end is supposed to be around 2012...something to do with gravity (will bring about all the natural disasters/food shortages). made sense at the time.

________________________________________________
here are some scary ones (taken from God Doesn't Believe in Atheists:


there will be an increase in pestilence. in the united states, 390,000 tons of pesticides are sprayed on crops each year to prevent the growing problem (U.S. News and World Report, November 16, 1987).

men will mock the signs of the end jof the age by saying, "these signs have always been around." this will be because they fail to understand that God is not subject to the dimension of time (2 Peter 3:4).

the sign that is the culmination of all these signs will be the israeli occupation of jerusalem (Lude 21:29, 30). in 1948, after over 1,900 years without a homeland, the jews set foot in jerusalem, fulfilling these words of Jesus Christ that were spoken 2,000 years earlier. God had warned that if the jews forsook his law, he would scatter them throughout the earth, allowing them to be put to shame. then he would draw them back to israel (Ezekiel 36:24). in isaiah 66:8 (700B.C.), isaiah prophesied: "shall the earth be made to give birth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soo as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children." in 1922, the league of nations gave great britain the mandate (political authourity) over palestine. on may 14, 1948, britain withdrew her mandate, and the nation of israel was "born in a day." ...scripture also informs us that jerusalem wil become a "burdensome stone for all people" (Zechariah 12:3).

the fact that god once flooded the earth (the Flood of Noah) will be denied (2 Peter 3:5).

in genesis...God said that Ishmael (the progenitor of the Arab race--Time, April 4, 1988) would be a "wild man; his hand shall be against every man, and every man's had against him. and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren" (Genesis 16:12). four thousand years later...the arabs and the jews are "brethren," having the same ancestors. the whole middle east conflict is caused by their dwelling together.

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#8

Post by RGeeB » Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:25 am

colors wrote:RGeeB,
one sign to look for which will clearly signify the end times is the universal persecution of Christians.
is it just me, or has this started? for some reason, i see it everywhere i look.
Christians still can express their faith freely in western countries. Let me make bold statement - Laws are creeping in which could make Christainity illegal within a handful of years. For example, in the UK, they are debating to outlaw strirring up religious hatered. So, when a preacher states that Jesus is the only way and all other ways of life lead to Hell....the Bible could soon be viewed as a book promoting hatered of other religions?
Maranatha!

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#9

Post by Prodigal Son » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:27 am

:shock:

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