Jesus and the Cup

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Christian2
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Jesus and the Cup

#1

Post by Christian2 » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:57 pm

Hello,

Please look at the following Scriptures:

Matthew 26:39-46 (NKJV)
39He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will."

40Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, "What! Could you not watch with Me one hour? 41Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."

42Again, a second time, He went away and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from Me unless I drink it, Your will be done." 43And He came and found them asleep again, for their eyes were heavy.

44So He left them, went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. 45Then He came to His disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46Rise, let us be going. See, My betrayer is at hand."

If Jesus' disciples were sleeping, then they couldn't have heard Jesus' prayer. Then who reported what Jesus said?

Thank you.

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#2

Post by Mastermind » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:10 pm

Umm, Jesus?

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#3

Post by RGeeB » Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:37 am

It has been speculated that Mark must have overheard it when he followed Jesus to the garden. Incidentally, John mentions a young observer who fled away naked when the gaurds came to capture Jesus. (I've also read somewhere that the last supper house may have been his.)
Maranatha!

Christian2
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Hi RGeeB

#4

Post by Christian2 » Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:56 am

I think that perhaps Jesus filled in the disciples after His resurrection and/or the missing information was given to the disciples by the Holy Spirit.
It has been speculated that Mark must have overheard it when he followed Jesus to the garden.
I must have missed that. This is something I was not aware of. I'll have to go back and take another look at the Scriptures.
Incidentally, John mentions a young observer who fled away naked when the gaurds came to capture Jesus. (I've also read somewhere that the last supper house may have been his.)
Yes, no one knows who that person was, do they? Why was he naked? Why was he there?

I sometimes come up with "weird" questions. Here's another:

Jesus would have been buried naked. When He was resurrected, He left behind His burial clothes. Then Mary mistook Him for a gardner. Where did Jesus get some clothes?

Thanks.

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#5

Post by RGeeB » Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:14 am

The evidence points to a young John Mark overhearing Jesus. No one can say for certain though. From a search I did:
Mark knew eyewitnesses

The Gospel of Mark was written by an individual who may have been only a partial witness to Jesus' life and teachings. Should this invalidate his Gospel account? Mark was intimately associated with the apostles and eyewitnesses. He was the cousin of Barnabas, a co-worker with Paul (Colossians 4:10) and is further identified as John Mark in Acts 12:12.

Robert H. Stein, professor of New Testament at Bethel Theological Seminary, points out that Mark “lived in Jerusalem and his home was a center of the early church.” Because of this, “He was no doubt privy to much eyewitness testimony,” writes Dr. Stein.

The Bible tells us Mark was closely associated with the apostle Paul in preaching the gospel message (Acts 12:25; 13:5; 15:36-39). Mark is called a fellow laborer with Paul (Philemon 24). At the end of his life, Paul instructs Timothy: “Get Mark and bring him with you, for he is useful to me for ministry” (2 Timothy 4:11). As well, a close relationship existed between the apostle Peter and Mark, evidenced by Peter's reference to him as “my son” (1 Peter 5:13).

As a teenager, Mark may even have seen and heard Jesus. The Gospel of Mark refers to “a certain young man” who followed the arrested Christ and then fled (Mark 14:51-52). Many scholars think that this story, which plays no role in the Gospel and is not found in any other Gospel, is a cryptic reference to the author.

Mark clearly had access to Jesus' teachings through these important eyewitnesses when writing his Gospel. For this reason, we can have confidence in what Mark reported of Jesus' words, teachings and life.
What did Jesus wear? Good question! I wonder what we will wear in our immortal bodies (if you believe in a bodily resurrection)!
Maranatha!

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Thanks RGeeB

#6

Post by Christian2 » Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:13 am

I printed out your response and will look it over.
What did Jesus wear? Good question! I wonder what we will wear in our immortal bodies (if you believe in a bodily resurrection)!
What will we wear? That's another one of my "weird" questions. In heaven will we have clothes? If so, does that mean someone will be doing laundry. lol

I suppose that Jesus could have been naked. If we believe in miracles then He could have made the onlookers "see" Him in clothes.

Don't you believe in a bodily resurrection? The disciples seemed to believe it.

Also (beyond the scope of my question), do you think that Christians have to believe in the virgin birth? What if Joseph was Jesus' father. Would that make a difference to you?

Thanks.

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#7

Post by bizzt » Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:52 am

I don't think we will have clothes because we will not be ashamed. Remember the Garden of Eden before Sin? That is speculation mind you but it is possible. :D

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Re: Thanks RGeeB

#8

Post by bizzt » Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:58 am


Also (beyond the scope of my question), do you think that Christians have to believe in the virgin birth? What if Joseph was Jesus' father. Would that make a difference to you?

Thanks.
Yes I believe Christians should believe in the Virgin Birth. If you notice in the first few chapters or Matthew and Luke there are two DIFFERENT Geneaology lines. Ever wonder why? Basically one line is of Joseph and the other of Mary. If Jesus was born of Joseph then his Line would be Cursed!

Tim

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#9

Post by Shirtless » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:24 am

Oh guys!

The answer to this one is easy! The Apostles knew what Jesus said because he told them. He told them when he appeared to them all those times after the resurection. That's also how the Apostles get all the information on Jesus' surging and his talk with Pontius Pilate.

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Hi bizzt

#10

Post by Christian2 » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:28 am

Basically one line is of Joseph and the other of Mary. If Jesus was born of Joseph then his Line would be Cursed!
But don't you think that perhaps God Himself voided the curse? Take a look at this:

Luke 1:29-33 NKJV
29But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."

Looks like God bypassed the curse. What do you think?

God bless

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Re: Hi bizzt

#11

Post by bizzt » Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:07 am

Christian2 wrote:
Basically one line is of Joseph and the other of Mary. If Jesus was born of Joseph then his Line would be Cursed!
But don't you think that perhaps God Himself voided the curse? Take a look at this:

Luke 1:29-33 NKJV
29But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."

Looks like God bypassed the curse. What do you think?

God bless
Why would God Contradict himself?
Here is some research
http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fus ... /BQA/k/116

I wanted to put this in here as well to explain even more about this
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/loophole.html

Christian2
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Thank you bizzt

#12

Post by Christian2 » Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:30 pm

bizzt,

Thank you for the links. I will read them. Jesus' geneaology has always been of interest to me--I have a large folder full of articles on this subject. The two links you gave me are something I hadn't read before.

Thanks again.

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Re: Thank you bizzt

#13

Post by bizzt » Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:03 pm

Christian2 wrote:bizzt,

Thank you for the links. I will read them. Jesus' geneaology has always been of interest to me--I have a large folder full of articles on this subject. The two links you gave me are something I hadn't read before.

Thanks again.
No Problem!

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