Jeremiah 29:11

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Lufia
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Jeremiah 29:11

#1

Post by Lufia » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:30 pm

'For I know the plans I have for you, plans for good and not evil, plans to give you a hope and a future'

I have difficulties believing this verse. There are numerous stories of people becoming new born christian and then 2 years later they die or even some days after. The 'worst' i have read is about a boy freshly converted on a saturday, wanting to go to church the next day and then he died during the night!

I know that being a christian doesnt protect you and anybody can die the next minute but i have real difficulty with that verse. What is the "plans for good and not evil" and the "hope and a future" if someone dies the next day? And if the meaning is for the afterlife, then why not say it? And if it is in paradise, then what is the hope and future means? There will be no future and hope in paradise.

I'm confuse :shakehead:

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Re: Jeremiah 29:11

#2

Post by zoegirl » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:07 pm

In context, this was a verse for the Hebrew people in captivity
A Letter to the Exiles
1 This is the text of the letter that the prophet Jeremiah sent from Jerusalem to the surviving elders among the exiles and to the priests, the prophets and all the other people Nebuchadnezzar had carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon. 2 (This was after King Jehoiachin [a] and the queen mother, the court officials and the leaders of Judah and Jerusalem, the craftsmen and the artisans had gone into exile from Jerusalem.) 3 He entrusted the letter to Elasah son of Shaphan and to Gemariah son of Hilkiah, whom Zedekiah king of Judah sent to King Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon. It said:
4 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon: 5 "Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce. 6 Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease. 7 Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the LORD for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper." 8 Yes, this is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: "Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have. 9 They are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them," declares the LORD.

10 This is what the LORD says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back from captivity. I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile."

15 You may say, "The LORD has raised up prophets for us in Babylon," 16 but this is what the LORD says about the king who sits on David's throne and all the people who remain in this city, your countrymen who did not go with you into exile- 17 yes, this is what the LORD Almighty says: "I will send the sword, famine and plague against them and I will make them like poor figs that are so bad they cannot be eaten. 18 I will pursue them with the sword, famine and plague and will make them abhorrent to all the kingdoms of the earth and an object of cursing and horror, of scorn and reproach, among all the nations where I drive them. 19 For they have not listened to my words," declares the LORD, "words that I sent to them again and again by my servants the prophets. And you exiles have not listened either," declares the LORD.


Despite the common usage of this verse, its meaning is a lot more complicated. It promised a hop and a future to the poeple in exile but it was not soon. For life on earth, it means having joy with Christ. In God's promise. God's fulfillment for us may mean death, but it is in His arms and in the new creation. We are HIs. WE will have a new body and will be in the new creation.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

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Re: Jeremiah 29:11

#3

Post by Jac3510 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:40 am

Lufia wrote:'For I know the plans I have for you, plans for good and not evil, plans to give you a hope and a future'

I have difficulties believing this verse. There are numerous stories of people becoming new born christian and then 2 years later they die or even some days after. The 'worst' i have read is about a boy freshly converted on a saturday, wanting to go to church the next day and then he died during the night!

I know that being a christian doesnt protect you and anybody can die the next minute but i have real difficulty with that verse. What is the "plans for good and not evil" and the "hope and a future" if someone dies the next day? And if the meaning is for the afterlife, then why not say it? And if it is in paradise, then what is the hope and future means? There will be no future and hope in paradise.

I'm confuse :shakehead:
Here is a GREAT sermon by Voddie Baucham on this passage. He puts it in the captivity context that zoe mentioned. Very, very, very good stuff.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7917599647
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Jeremiah 29:11

#4

Post by FFC » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:19 pm

So I guess we can't use this as a word of hope to a fellow believer in the context of this lifetime?
"Faith sees the invisible, believes the unbelievable, and receives the impossible." - Corrie Ten Boom

Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

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Re: Jeremiah 29:11

#5

Post by Jac3510 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:43 pm

FFC wrote:So I guess we can't use this as a word of hope to a fellow believer in the context of this lifetime?
Not if you want to keep it in context. Besides, as Baucham so well points out, to use it that way puts a person in bondage, because when bad things happen and they try to claim this passage, either there is a problem with God or there is a problem with themselves. People aren't going to tell God that He is wrong, so they will start looking for all the things that God could possibly be punishing them for. They become like Job's accusers, only toward themselves.

On the other hand, we can use this as a great source of hope when we remind one another that our citizenship is in heaven, and this will be fulfilled in Millennial Reign. That means that the troubles we face today are only temporary. Besides, how depressing would it be if the silly things we entertain ourselves with today--health, wealth, toys, and friends--are what God has in mind when He promises to bless us? No, God has a much, much greater promise in mind, and we can be relieved that even in our best day, we haven't received it yet.

My $.02.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Jeremiah 29:11

#6

Post by zoegirl » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:45 pm

I agree....

(although I wouldn't necessarily discount blessings in this life....but ultimately the blessings are found in the redemption relationship with Christ within these earthly blessings)
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

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Re: Jeremiah 29:11

#7

Post by Jac3510 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:50 pm

zoegirl wrote:I agree....

(although I wouldn't necessarily discount blessings in this life....but ultimately the blessings are found in the redemption relationship with Christ within these earthly blessings)
I don't intend to discount early blessings. All I mean is that the material/temporal things we are blessed with are not what God had in mind in Jer. 29:11 (or any other such passage that I can think of for that matter).

edit: But I'm also not saying that all God has in mind is a watered down, purely spiritual version of the promise, either. I'm saying that the ultimate fulfillment of this passage is entirely future, when we live and reign with Christ in His Kingdom for all eternity. That we may experience a type of that blessing even in this life by His living through us is a grace upon grace, but even that is not what is directly intended in the passage--it was, after all, written for the Jewish people in exile! ;)
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Jeremiah 29:11

#8

Post by zoegirl » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:35 pm

:amen:
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

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