Abraham's Bosom

Discussions about the Bible, and any issues raised by Scripture.
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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#16

Post by phiver4 » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:29 pm

Yes it is, FFC, yes it is!

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#17

Post by jenna » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:27 pm

phiver4 wrote:I do sincerely appreciate everyone on these forums and the attempts made by those to answer my questions. As stated in previous discussions, God has answered my prayer in a thunderous way over the past 2 months. I grew apart from God for years but my doubt and skeptism has brought me back to Him in a way I never thought possible. I have learned so much over such a short span of time that I cannot wait for each new day to see what He will show me.

This site, it's discussion forum and you all, do not take for granted anything that you write. You have no idea how much you have helped me in my search for the answers to the questions that have been locked inside of me and have kept me from God all these years. Please be patient with me and my questions.
[/quote=j] I Don't take my words for granted that I write. I know I have messed up SEVERAL times. (thankfully others here set me straight very quickly! ) thanks people! :lol:
The skeptics created the doubt inside of me but it was my doubt that brought me back and has made me strong. Thank you all again, you are truly God's blessing to me.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#18

Post by Judah » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:01 pm

The word "bosom" in the context of Luke 16:22 is G2859 in Strong's Dictionary - κόλπος
The definition given is: Apparently a primary word; the bosom; by analogy a bay: - bosom, creek.

It has also been translated as follows:
Luke 16: 22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. (NIV)
From John Gill's Exposition of the Bible comes the following explanation of the term "Abraham's bosom":
...and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: by Abraham's bosom is meant heaven, a phrase well known to the Jews, by which they commonly expressed the happiness of the future state: of Abraham's happy state they had no doubt; and when they spake of the happiness of another's, they sometimes signified it by going to Abraham; as when the mother of the seven sons, slain by Caesar, saw her youngest going to be sacrificed {p} "she fell upon him, and embraced him, and kissed him, and said unto him, my son, Mkyba Mhrba lua Kl, "go to Abraham, your father," and tell him, thus saith my mother, &c." and sometimes, as here, by being in his bosom. So it is said {q}, that Eliezer his servant (Abraham's, the same name with Lazarus) wqyxb hnwm, "is laid in his bosom": and which may refer to the account in the Talmud {r}, that when R. Benaah, the painter of caves, came to the cave of Abraham, he found Eliezer, the servant of Abraham, hymq yaqd, "standing before him." And it is also said {s} of Rabbi, when he died, Mhrba lv wqyxb bvwy Mwyh, "this day he sits in the bosom of Abraham"; for as it was usual with them to represent the joys of heaven by a feast, so the partaking of them, by sitting down at a table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; see Matthew 8:11 and as their manner at meals was by lying along on couches at eating; he that lay next another might be said to lie, or lean, in his bosom: hence Abraham's bosom came to signify the near and intimate enjoyment of happiness with him in the other world.
Source

Hope that helps, rather than confuses.

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#19

Post by phiver4 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:33 am

Judah wrote:The word "bosom" in the context of Luke 16:22 is G2859 in Strong's Dictionary - κόλπος
The definition given is: Apparently a primary word; the bosom; by analogy a bay: - bosom, creek.

It has also been translated as follows:
Luke 16: 22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. (NIV)
From John Gill's Exposition of the Bible comes the following explanation of the term "Abraham's bosom":
...and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: by Abraham's bosom is meant heaven, a phrase well known to the Jews, by which they commonly expressed the happiness of the future state: of Abraham's happy state they had no doubt; and when they spake of the happiness of another's, they sometimes signified it by going to Abraham; as when the mother of the seven sons, slain by Caesar, saw her youngest going to be sacrificed {p} "she fell upon him, and embraced him, and kissed him, and said unto him, my son, Mkyba Mhrba lua Kl, "go to Abraham, your father," and tell him, thus saith my mother, &c." and sometimes, as here, by being in his bosom. So it is said {q}, that Eliezer his servant (Abraham's, the same name with Lazarus) wqyxb hnwm, "is laid in his bosom": and which may refer to the account in the Talmud {r}, that when R. Benaah, the painter of caves, came to the cave of Abraham, he found Eliezer, the servant of Abraham, hymq yaqd, "standing before him." And it is also said {s} of Rabbi, when he died, Mhrba lv wqyxb bvwy Mwyh, "this day he sits in the bosom of Abraham"; for as it was usual with them to represent the joys of heaven by a feast, so the partaking of them, by sitting down at a table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; see Matthew 8:11 and as their manner at meals was by lying along on couches at eating; he that lay next another might be said to lie, or lean, in his bosom: hence Abraham's bosom came to signify the near and intimate enjoyment of happiness with him in the other world.
Source

Hope that helps, rather than confuses.
Thank you very much for finding that Judah, yes, that cleared up my confusion on this.

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#20

Post by Judah » Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:06 am

I see you have mastered the "quote" feature, too. :wink:

There are some further points about that feature here. 8)

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#21

Post by jenna » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:03 am

One other point of view on this. Lazarus' presence at Abraham's bosom depicts a very close relationship. The apostle John is recorded as having reclined on Christ's bosom as "the disciple that Christ loved". (John 13:23) So a special relationship is shown between Abraham and Lazarus, with no reference to either time or place. Describing a conversation during the time of Christ's ministry, John 8:52-53 states twice that "Abraham is dead". At that point, he had been dead for nearly 2000 years! He was not waiting in heaven for people to come, immediately after death, and recline on his bosom. The meek inherit the EARTH when Christ returns to establish His kingdom. Abraham and Lazarus will be resurrected into the kingdom of God at Christ's second coming. That is the meaning of this phrase.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#22

Post by phiver4 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:08 am

Judah wrote:I see you have mastered the "quote" feature, too. :wink:

There are some further points about that feature here. 8)
Trust me, that is a major accomplishment for me. thanks.

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#23

Post by phiver4 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:13 am

jenwat3 wrote:One other point of view on this. Lazarus' presence at Abraham's bosom depicts a very close relationship. The apostle John is recorded as having reclined on Christ's bosom as "the disciple that Christ loved". (John 13:23) So a special relationship is shown between Abraham and Lazarus, with no reference to either time or place. Describing a conversation during the time of Christ's ministry, John 8:52-53 states twice that "Abraham is dead". At that point, he had been dead for nearly 2000 years! He was not waiting in heaven for people to come, immediately after death, and recline on his bosom. The meek inherit the EARTH when Christ returns to establish His kingdom. Abraham and Lazarus will be resurrected into the kingdom of God at Christ's second coming. That is the meaning of this phrase.
Thank you jenwat, it is even more clear now.

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#24

Post by jenna » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:17 am

You're welcome. But as I stated this this only MY VIEW. I think you might read all posts and come up with the one that makes the most sense to you. :D
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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#25

Post by phiver4 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:31 am

jenwat3 wrote:You're welcome. But as I stated this this only MY VIEW. I think you might read all posts and come up with the one that makes the most sense to you. :D
I have, and from what I have read from the posts on this subject has helped me eliminate any thought of a state of "limbo" as i had originally questioned. To me, it describes Heaven itself, as shown in Judah's post and from which Abraham and Lazarus will be resurrected during the Jesus' second coming as you explained.

Thank you again.

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#26

Post by jenna » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:41 am

Just so I can understand better, you think that it is Heaven, and they will be resurrected from it later?
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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#27

Post by phiver4 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:19 am

jenwat3 wrote:Just so I can understand better, you think that it is Heaven, and they will be resurrected from it later?
Whether it is Heaven itself or a place in Heaven, I am still not sure. But I do agree that both will be resurrected from there to join Jesus on Earth during his second coming.

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#28

Post by jenna » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:21 am

Ok. One question. If they are already in heaven, what would be the need for their resurrection?
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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#29

Post by Judah » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:49 am

Stand back a little and look at the context. As well as speaking to the Pharisees, Jesus was also busy teaching His disciples through the use of parables - the Great Banquet (Luke 14), the Lost Sheep, the Lost Coin, the Lost Son (Luke 15), the Shrewd Manager, the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16). A parable is a fine teaching tool, but it is a story - not necessarily something that has actually happened in reality. With these questions now about heaven and resurrection, and how could it be so, could it be possible that a category mistake is being made, that you are attributing to a parable the extra features of reality that are not appropriate to it? For instance, do you think that this parable can define one's theology to allow dialogue between those in heaven and those in hell? If one is in heaven, does one get to be having conversations with those who are in hell and also subjected to their constant entreaties? I personally think that is asking too much of a parable, and so to try and figure how the conditions of the story came about is also reading more into it than was originally intended.

What do you think?

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Re: Abraham's Bosom

#30

Post by phiver4 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:09 pm

Judah wrote:Stand back a little and look at the context. As well as speaking to the Pharisees, Jesus was also busy teaching His disciples through the use of parables - the Great Banquet (Luke 14), the Lost Sheep, the Lost Coin, the Lost Son (Luke 15), the Shrewd Manager, the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16). A parable is a fine teaching tool, but it is a story - not necessarily something that has actually happened in reality. With these questions now about heaven and resurrection, and how could it be so, could it be possible that a category mistake is being made, that you are attributing to a parable the extra features of reality that are not appropriate to it? For instance, do you think that this parable can define one's theology to allow dialogue between those in heaven and those in hell? If one is in heaven, does one get to be having conversations with those who are in hell and also subjected to their constant entreaties? I personally think that is asking too much of a parable, and so to try and figure how the conditions of the story came about is also reading more into it than was originally intended.

What do you think?
I think that I have been thinking way too much.

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