Love your enemies - should we even love Satan?

Discussions about the Bible, and any issues raised by Scripture.
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madscientist
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other religions vs christianity

#46

Post by madscientist » Sat May 05, 2007 12:12 pm

I also agree, and als have haerd many times that christuan relifion is different in the way that it is not works but savior. but if someone is told "your religion is the best", like we christians are told, how can it be justified that one is better than the other? There needs to be an objective Judge, who is GOD most probably, and he is the God of Christinaity... but let's assume we beilive in a diferent religion and yet are told ours is the best and believe, for example, that Buddha - or Muhammed is the answer to salvation. And if we believed they are also unique - we'd choose the unique aspect of each of them, and procalim it and say "[religion] is better than any other because of A, B and C" then maybe something like that could be said about any religion. So how can it be justified that our religion is the REAL and TRUE one? Could some other members, e.g. buddhists, islamists, hindusits, accept that and come to the decision that christianity is still the true relifion whilst knowingf they have believd for years their own?
(Not sayin im not christian!! I try to be, and believe in JC... just this argument bothers mee/...) :roll:
"Love is only possible if a choice of either love or rejecting the love is given." One of the most true things id ever heard, not so long ago.

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#47

Post by terry » Sat May 05, 2007 2:31 pm

I so agree with you. Especially in the West (being the ultimate consumers that we are) we tend to "market" Christianity like it's a product.

But most "witnessing" takes place as people watch us, not as a result of some overt act or speech. For all the evangelistic talk about "it's about a relationship not a religion"-- Christians often forget to live like that's true!

When there is consistent evidence that you're talking to the Lord and that He's talking back to you . . . it becomes pretty evident that you are experiencing something people without Him aren't experiencing. Of course, it's up to them to decide if they want to change that. :D

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Experiencing etc

#48

Post by madscientist » Mon May 07, 2007 11:24 am

terry wrote:When there is consistent evidence that you're talking to the Lord and that He's talking back to you . . . it becomes pretty evident that you are experiencing something people without Him aren't experiencing. Of course, it's up to them to decide if they want to change that. :D
OK but how it is with other religions, then? For example, when a strong islam believer prays to Allah, does his prayers get heard? I mean, these people also get a good feeling when they pray, dont they? That they have prayed, even if the being does not exist, like a psychological joy etc. Or dont they? If they werent why would they prey? SO isnt the joy etc we experience during praying and knowing we had talked to God (even if he doesnt exist as in case of oter religions) same for everyone?
Then also there could be soem "extra stuff" for those whose God really exists, e.g. that prayer gets really heard, etc, but isnt the general feeling of prayer, the state of mind equal to everyone? if it werent, christians and those who believe in our God would be the only ones to pray, or wouldnt they?! :o
"Love is only possible if a choice of either love or rejecting the love is given." One of the most true things id ever heard, not so long ago.

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#49

Post by FFC » Mon May 07, 2007 12:59 pm

but isnt the general feeling of prayer, the state of mind equal to everyone?
Yes, but the object of your prayers are much more important.
"Faith sees the invisible, believes the unbelievable, and receives the impossible." - Corrie Ten Boom

Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

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praying in diferent religomns

#50

Post by madscientist » Tue May 08, 2007 11:21 am

FFC wrote:
but isnt the general feeling of prayer, the state of mind equal to everyone?
Yes, but the object of your prayers are much more important.
Cud be true, but i was referring to the fact that even if the "god" of a religion doiesnt exist (coz only the God of christianity exists and religions believing in the same God) then the praying people still experience, i think, the same feeling, emotion, state of mind, etc - of prayer. And that it may be heard, or not, may depend on whether gGod to be prayed to exists or not - but that the feeling of having prayed is the same. Or isnt it? So then is this an adequate measure of telling which religion is false and which is the true one?
"Love is only possible if a choice of either love or rejecting the love is given." One of the most true things id ever heard, not so long ago.

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#51

Post by terry » Tue May 08, 2007 12:38 pm

Hi madscientist.

There are two issues here: One is whether or not people (of other religions) feel good about it when they pray and second is how people know they are relating to the REAL God.

You're right there IS a certain amount of "good feeling" or personal satisfaction that goes with a dedicated "spiritual" effort or an act of kindness--even for people who do it for other religions or reasons.

But God is there whether I feel Him or not-- and the "good feeling" I'm getting isn't necessarily a way to measure whether or not I've communicated with God. I may feel good because I'm impressed with my own efforts.

Jesus' prayer in the garden of Gethsemene was so intense and filled with such deep, negative emotion that He actually sweat blood. This happened because He KNEW the horrors that awaited Him. It didn't feel good. He wanted out-- but said, "Nevertheless, THY kingdom come (Father) Thy will be done." Peace comes with surrender. (Sadly, a lot of daily prayers that we offer revolve around "MY kingdom come, My will be done.")

I can't speak for people of all other religions. Before I became a Christian, I experienced "prayer" and meditation in the occult and the New Age movement. There was a certain (temporary) high or good feeling in those things-- but not the joy or peace I experience now. Back then, the "feel good" buzz of doing "spiritual" things was fleeting, and I don't ever recall having the sense that my prayers were "heard" (that a higher power would definitely move on my behalf).

I don't think I've known anyone of another religion such as Islam or Hinduism who felt as if they could simply talk to their God and be heard. (That's not to say they don't exist, but I've never met one who felt that way.)

The Lord created the man and woman to walk and talk WITH Him, to have conversation with Him. Interaction. God desires to talk back to us, to be a lamp that lights our way-- and this is what I meant by living a life that is different from people in the world. I'm talking about a life that consistently shows gratitude and love because it's actually surrendered to and guided by the Living Lord. It's a confidence, even in the midst of loss or sorrow, that He is holding me in His hand. I think that people all over the world hunger for that.

Before I walked with Jesus, my sister (a Christian) demonstrated a consistent peace, and grace toward me that totally melted my hard heart. It was evident that God HEARD her and responded to her. The grace and wisdom she demonstrated toward me were born in her prayers for me and her open ear to the Lord.

Now, knowing Jesus for myself, I can boldly pray to God without fear. I can do this without a ceremony, without incense, or a pilgrimage to a certain place, or the blood of goats, or anything "extra." I don't have to "earn" God's presence or His love. I never seen this offered in any other religion.

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Praying

#52

Post by madscientist » Wed May 09, 2007 2:06 pm

Nice post, terry! God be blessed for such things! Me, too, am often not satisfied with my life, prayers (im only 17) and althpugh pray, dont feel like they are always heard or that what i am doing is really EFFICIENT. i may pray, for the same thing more or less, but i dont feel the "motivation", as =i call it, to live and extract joy from this life. i just hope that sooner or later God changes this and gives full meaning to my life. :wink: And what kind of prayers are the best? Kind of "from the heart", invented, made up stuff, talking to him, or rather from a praying book and the most common prayer such as Our Father, Ave Maria etc or a mixture??
I jus hope that GOd will help and teach all those who seek to know how to pray efficiently and get out of life the TRUE meaning of this temporary life as well as eternity.. :) :P
God bless
"Love is only possible if a choice of either love or rejecting the love is given." One of the most true things id ever heard, not so long ago.

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#53

Post by zoegirl » Wed May 09, 2007 3:38 pm

I would suggest reading through the Psalms.

the kind of prayer that God wants can be seen here...people crying out to God in grief, despair, joy, happiness, even anger. God wants our entire being, this includes our emotions. YOu will notice that throughout the prayers they still end with establishing God as the ruler.

Certainly, though, there are some books that have prayers that can help us establish our thoughts. My favorite one would be one the provides Puritan Prayers. Something extraordinarily stunning and deep about their prayers.

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#54

Post by terry » Wed May 09, 2007 5:12 pm

madscientist said:
Me, too, am often not satisfied with my life, prayers (im only 17) and althpugh pray, dont feel like they are always heard or that what i am doing is really EFFICIENT
One of the things I love most about the Lord is that He doesn't care about efficiency!!! :lol: He cares about us.

zoegirl said:
I would suggest reading through the Psalms.

the kind of prayer that God wants can be seen here...people crying out to God in grief, despair, joy, happiness, even anger. God wants our entire being, this includes our emotions. YOu will notice that throughout the prayers they still end with establishing God as the ruler.
Great suggestion. I love the psalms. Whether the writer (usually David) was feeling victorious, or totally depressed, or really sad over his own sin he still ran to his Heavenly Father and poured out his heart-- always reminding himself that God was Lord of all and able to meet him right where he was at.

I think of the story Jesus told about the Pharisee and the tax collector who went to the temple to pray. (Luke 18:9-10 NIV) "The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'" Jesus said that the tax collector was the one who went home "justified."

The Pharisee thought he had no real need for God--having made himself perfect. The Tax collector realized his need was great and that God was mighty enough to fix it.

Lots of people have LOTS of different ways to pray . . . but the best way is the way that expresses your heart and recognizes God's ability to move on your behalf.

Blessings

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about Praying

#55

Post by madscientist » Fri May 11, 2007 1:50 pm

So we shoyuld pray to God to express ourselves etc. But a question - maybe a stupid one but - its said that praying is a dialogue with God. But since we cant really hear the voice of God speaking to us, maybe only imaginary, is it really a dialogue, a talk? Do we hear the voice back? And also, how much time (this is not gona be exact or anything set) do people pray or shoudl (not a rule but what seems to be the average?)? I know the answser will be soemthing like "its not set its free" etc but what seems to be the avbergae time ppl, the REAL christians, spend talking to God per day?
God Bless
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#56

Post by zoegirl » Fri May 11, 2007 1:51 pm

By the way, remembered the book on puritan prayers...."The Valley of Vision"

Very good

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#57

Post by terry » Fri May 11, 2007 4:29 pm

madscientist said:
its said that praying is a dialogue with God. But since we cant really hear the voice of God speaking to us, maybe only imaginary, is it really a dialogue, a talk? Do we hear the voice back?
Who told you that you can't hear God? Where is that written?

Okay, okay . . . I realize you're asking a practical question-- because it's not an actual "voice" for most people . . . but I believe God does speak in whatever way that people can receive it. Scripture says that even creation itself speaks of the Glory of God for people to see that He exists. For some, hearing from God is when they are reading a passage of scripture that just seems to jump out at them. For others, it can be an answer that just comes to them, or a dream, or wisdom being spoken through a friend. How do people know they are "called" to preach, or how are missionaries led to specific places? There are millions of examples all around us.

That's not to say that God isn't able to speak loudly, but He most often chooses to use that which is natural rather than that which is supernatural. We humans are fascinated by the supernatural in an unhealthy way. Sort of like the Pharisees that kept wanting one more "sign" before they'd believe.

I believe God does speak and that miracles can and do happen, but they (miracles) often cause more trouble for people than they solve, because of the way people worship and run to a miracle rather than the Lord.

Knowledge of scripture and being accountable to brothers and sisters in Christ are good ways to be sure you're hearing . . . but yes I believe God speaks to us.

In any case, if you never expect God to answer . . . then it would be hard to say whether He did or not, wouldn't it? :-)

Blessings
terry

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#58

Post by FFC » Fri May 11, 2007 5:25 pm

Mad wrote:And also, how much time (this is not gona be exact or anything set) do people pray or shoudl (not a rule but what seems to be the average?)? I know the answser will be soemthing like "its not set its free" etc but what seems to be the avbergae time ppl, the REAL christians, spend talking to God per day?
Mad, let me ask you a question. If you met a girl and fell madly in love with her, how much time do you think should be required for you to talk to her?

1. One hour a day?
2. Two hours a day?
3. Every chance you get?
"Faith sees the invisible, believes the unbelievable, and receives the impossible." - Corrie Ten Boom

Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

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Praying etc

#59

Post by madscientist » Thu May 24, 2007 9:51 am

Hm nicely said PL! Ok then that kinda answers it... shoudl be whenever we get the chance. ok so includes prayers such as random 10 seconds thoughts like "i like the creation" e.g. when walking in nature and seeing the beauty? or when being fascinated by the logic or somethinbg "cool" in biology or soething like that? counts as prayers? in that case yess, i agree - anseer3. :wink:

God Bless

((BTW i dont kno y i didnt get notification that i got answer to topic - message jus didnt come. is it maybe coz i didnt sign out or didnt close the window? thgx))
"Love is only possible if a choice of either love or rejecting the love is given." One of the most true things id ever heard, not so long ago.

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#60

Post by FFC » Thu May 24, 2007 12:37 pm

Mad wrote:((BTW i dont kno y i didnt get notification that i got answer to topic - message jus didnt come. is it maybe coz i didnt sign out or didnt close the window? thgx))
I think the server still has some kinks that need worked out...as do we all. :wink:
"Faith sees the invisible, believes the unbelievable, and receives the impossible." - Corrie Ten Boom

Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

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