Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

Discussions surrounding the various other faiths who deviate from mainstream Christian doctrine such as LDS and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#1

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:09 am

I don't want to fling mud or at least I shouldn't want to, but some of their theology is questionable. I get their idea of eating right and health laws and restrictions like not wearing jewerly etc are meant for good intentions that one would want to do as a Christian, however it seems they border on legalism.
Then there is the coverup in the SDA church on where ppl expose Ellen White as being a false prophet and get kicked out.
They also say that having the sabbath on Sunday is wrong and will eventually become the mark of the beast. Paul says you can have the sabbath on any day. And yes, they claim that Paul meant the "several yearly sabbaths" during the time when Moses' law was in effect.

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#2

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:13 am

Define cult?

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#3

Post by Philip » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:41 pm

The SDA CHURCH has many false beliefs - particularly their reverence for various personal teachings of Ellen White - of which they appear to revere as if Scripture itself: https://www.adventist.org/en/utility/se ... en%20white. But they also teach Scripture to be infallible and inspired by God: https://www.adventist.org/en/beliefs/go ... criptures/, and that Jesus is God, that God is ONE and a Trinity: https://www.adventist.org/en/beliefs/go ... e-persons/ But they deny the teachings of Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14:5 with their hyper-focus upon a proper week DAY for honoring a Sabbath, as opposed to the proper focus that, WHATEVER day one chooses for a Sabbath, it is their focus on the Lord in worship that truly matters. Certainly, their obsession with whatever babblings of Ellen White, their refusal to denounce her errors, their hyperfocus on dietary practices, etc., are distractful, at best, and highly misleading, at worst.

But almost every large denomination has held, at one time or another, to teachings that were merely traditions that (in the minds of those practicing them) began to be thought equal to Scripture. But, bottom line for SDA - they DO teach faith in a Jesus/God is what saves a person.
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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#4

Post by RickD » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:20 pm

28 Fundamental SDA Beliefs

For reference.

They definitely have some false teachings, at the very least. Possibly cultic.

The requirement to observe the sabbath, by the very act, denies Christ. The sabbath was to point ahead to the rest we have in Christ. By the act of requiring that the sabbath still be observed, whatever day, denies that Christ has come and given us rest in him.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#5

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:35 pm

RickD wrote:28 Fundamental SDA Beliefs

For reference.

They definitely have some false teachings, at the very least. Possibly cultic.

The requirement to observe the sabbath, by the very act, denies Christ. The sabbath was to point ahead to the rest we have in Christ. By the act of requiring that the sabbath still be observed, whatever day, denies that Christ has come and given us rest in him.
I never thought of that.
Usually they say it's required bc of the 10 commandments n bc it's good to give the mind a day of mental rest and the body one too. However, doing good things on the Sabbath was permitted by Jesus.
Do you think God will hold them accountable for that? I have relatives and family friends that are SDA. I don't want them to go to hell-nor other ppl-bc of this.

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#6

Post by RickD » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:14 pm

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:28 Fundamental SDA Beliefs

For reference.

They definitely have some false teachings, at the very least. Possibly cultic.

The requirement to observe the sabbath, by the very act, denies Christ. The sabbath was to point ahead to the rest we have in Christ. By the act of requiring that the sabbath still be observed, whatever day, denies that Christ has come and given us rest in him.
I never thought of that.
Usually they say it's required bc of the 10 commandments n bc it's good to give the mind a day of mental rest and the body one too. However, doing good things on the Sabbath was permitted by Jesus.
Do you think God will hold them accountable for that? I have relatives and family friends that are SDA. I don't want them to go to hell-nor other ppl-bc of this.
It's possible that a SDA can be saved. Much of their theology is consistent with scripture. But, there are false teachings also.
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thatkidakayoungguy (Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:15 pm)
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#7

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:14 pm

RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:28 Fundamental SDA Beliefs

For reference.

They definitely have some false teachings, at the very least. Possibly cultic.

The requirement to observe the sabbath, by the very act, denies Christ. The sabbath was to point ahead to the rest we have in Christ. By the act of requiring that the sabbath still be observed, whatever day, denies that Christ has come and given us rest in him.
I never thought of that.
Usually they say it's required bc of the 10 commandments n bc it's good to give the mind a day of mental rest and the body one too. However, doing good things on the Sabbath was permitted by Jesus.
Do you think God will hold them accountable for that? I have relatives and family friends that are SDA. I don't want them to go to hell-nor other ppl-bc of this.
It's possible that a SDA can be saved. Much of their theology is consistent with scripture. But, there are false teachings also.
What do you think about the investigative judgement doctrine? Is it sound? It kinda makes sense but God knows everything already.

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#8

Post by RickD » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:08 pm

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:28 Fundamental SDA Beliefs

For reference.

They definitely have some false teachings, at the very least. Possibly cultic.

The requirement to observe the sabbath, by the very act, denies Christ. The sabbath was to point ahead to the rest we have in Christ. By the act of requiring that the sabbath still be observed, whatever day, denies that Christ has come and given us rest in him.
I never thought of that.
Usually they say it's required bc of the 10 commandments n bc it's good to give the mind a day of mental rest and the body one too. However, doing good things on the Sabbath was permitted by Jesus.
Do you think God will hold them accountable for that? I have relatives and family friends that are SDA. I don't want them to go to hell-nor other ppl-bc of this.
It's possible that a SDA can be saved. Much of their theology is consistent with scripture. But, there are false teachings also.
What do you think about the investigative judgement doctrine? Is it sound? It kinda makes sense but God knows everything already.
What do you think about what this link says?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

thatkidakayoungguy
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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#9

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:46 pm

RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:28 Fundamental SDA Beliefs

For reference.

They definitely have some false teachings, at the very least. Possibly cultic.

The requirement to observe the sabbath, by the very act, denies Christ. The sabbath was to point ahead to the rest we have in Christ. By the act of requiring that the sabbath still be observed, whatever day, denies that Christ has come and given us rest in him.
I never thought of that.
Usually they say it's required bc of the 10 commandments n bc it's good to give the mind a day of mental rest and the body one too. However, doing good things on the Sabbath was permitted by Jesus.
Do you think God will hold them accountable for that? I have relatives and family friends that are SDA. I don't want them to go to hell-nor other ppl-bc of this.
It's possible that a SDA can be saved. Much of their theology is consistent with scripture. But, there are false teachings also.
What do you think about the investigative judgement doctrine? Is it sound? It kinda makes sense but God knows everything already.
What do you think about what this link says?
Yea, it's a false doctrine. It was started by some dude who had a vision of God entering something like the Holiest of Holies and the SDA camp used that to explain away the 1844 error of William Miller.

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#10

Post by Ged » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:28 am

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:I don't want to fling mud or at least I shouldn't want to, but some of their theology is questionable. I get their idea of eating right and health laws and restrictions like not wearing jewerly etc are meant for good intentions that one would want to do as a Christian, however it seems they border on legalism.
Then there is the coverup in the SDA church on where ppl expose Ellen White as being a false prophet and get kicked out.
They also say that having the sabbath on Sunday is wrong and will eventually become the mark of the beast. Paul says you can have the sabbath on any day. And yes, they claim that Paul meant the "several yearly sabbaths" during the time when Moses' law was in effect.
SDA (and related Millerites) were the nut cases of the 19th century in the same way as dispensationalists were the nut cases of the 20th century.

We only have to look at recent rapture predictions to ask ourselves who were the worst. The answer is to go back to Acts 1:7 and repent of the sin of 'prophet-try-hard-ism'
"Your name and renown
is the desire of our hearts."
(Isaiah 26:8)

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#11

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:41 am

Would you say William Miller was a sincere dude who repented?
I want to say yes.

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#12

Post by JButler » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:38 pm

Somewhere I read the worst lie is one that's 98% true. That's how I view a lot of institutions and their manifestos.
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Mallz (Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:45 pm)
If the truth hurts, maybe it should.

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#13

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:34 pm

Some interesting-and concerning-things I found. SDA is borderline legalistic at best, and I think while they have good intentions they go too far, if this is accurate-http://leavingsda.com/seventh-day-adventist-cult/
*I must say that link does not describe all Advents. Ik, bc of family. They are more like regular conservatives.

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#14

Post by BavarianWheels » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:04 pm

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:I don't want to fling mud or at least I shouldn't want to, but some of their theology is questionable. I get their idea of eating right and health laws and restrictions like not wearing jewerly etc are meant for good intentions that one would want to do as a Christian, however it seems they border on legalism.
Then there is the coverup in the SDA church on where ppl expose Ellen White as being a false prophet and get kicked out.
They also say that having the sabbath on Sunday is wrong and will eventually become the mark of the beast. Paul says you can have the sabbath on any day. And yes, they claim that Paul meant the "several yearly sabbaths" during the time when Moses' law was in effect.
It's been quite some time since I've been on this forum...a few years maybe?

Anyway, let me address this as an Adventist myself.

1. It is true that Adventism tends to breed legalism. That's not necessarily the fault of the system itself unless you're willing to admit that God is a legalist...which I am willing to admit given the simple fact that unless a person is perfect, we cannot have everlasting life. It is only through Christ's perfection that we can be declared righteous.

The fault here is that PEOPLE misinterpret the intention of the Church...they believe keeping the Sabbath MUST be done and done in a certain manner. They fail to see how Christ, as recorded in scripture, kept the Sabbath and apply that to their own day and manner of keeping.

2. The health laws and dietary adherence; It's amazing to me how times have changed. When I was a kid, being vegetarian was thought of as weird. Now Veganism is quite acceptable and encouraged FOR health. Smoking has cut down considerably in western culture, though not gone and now being replaced with vaping. Something the Adventists have been promoting, I think, from Adventism's roots.

3. Jewelry; while it may be a practice followed by some Adventists today and maybe the preference for those that stand on the pulpits or lead, it is definitely NOT a taboo anymore. Maybe to our detriment...or maybe we've evolved to dwell less on the jewelry and more on God. I think the initial intentions of the 'rule' was for the betterment of each person's relationship with God. I don't find any ill will on the matter though.

4. I have never been to a SDA church that promotes EGW above the bible, though I can tell you there are Adventists that do. I have never read that EGW should be taken above scripture, but rather that EGW, like any other expositor of scripture does, did what she could/felt/believed to explain things as she understood. She herself NEVER felt the Church should put her words above scripture and was a topic of great discussion in a meeting called, "The Bible Conference of 1919" which I believe could be found and read which would be eye opening to many. In it, the leaders discuss her actual thoughts and I believe her husband was also present where these ideas were being discussed.

To most SDA's, we treat EGW as an author like any other that writes ABOUT scripture. We can read to find how she interpreted ideas. Sure, she got a few things wrong, she "plagiarized", but these things were brought up in that conference and her thoughts on this was conveyed. If it wasn't at that specific conference, I think it is discussed in a book by an Aussie, Graeme Bradford. I don't recall the name of the book off hand.

Certainly there are some SDA's that put EGW on a pedestal and that is unfortunate. They tend to make the most noise and we all know the saying about a squeaky wheel...

5. The Sabbath.
a. It's a day God/Jesus-instituted holy day made clear by His word. Therefore it can only be un-instituted by God made clearly by His word.
b. Jesus kept the Sabbath...and made no mention of "keeping" another or of abolishing the original commandment.
c. If the Commandments were abolished, then why is it Christians keep ANY of it
d. SDA's do not keep the Sabbath thinking that through it, salvation comes. We keep it because we believe it to be a perpetual command of God that we endeavor to keep for that reason. We love God and feebly attempt to do as He says as best a sinner can.
e. This booklet, Rome's Challenge, definitely sheds light on the Sabbath issue. It's quite eye-opening and it only takes maybe a half hour of your time.

f. It is a legal document ( laws ) that if anything is added or removed, must be done in the same manner as it was given. Moses had no reason to believe a stone tablet simply fell from the sky and therefore by that knowledge assumed it to be from God. I think we all as Christians believe that Moses received those tablets of stone directly from God and he knew it...as the story goes anyway.

I know there's a lot of positions non-Adventists take for removal of the Sabbath rest for A sabbath rest...if you get what I mean from the of capitals.

No person is saved on the laws they keep or don't keep. We are saved on the merits of Jesus Christ and HE ALONE has done all that is necessary for our salvation. If that is the belief of Adventists, and I claim that most Adventists have this sort of belief, then it is quite possible these people that claim Adventism as their label within Christianity, are also among the saved. We "keep" laws and abide by the Spirit because we love God/Jesus, not because it is a requirement FOR salvation.

I'm open to attempt to answer any questions you all may have.
.
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thatkidakayoungguy (Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:39 am)

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Re: Are the SDA a cult or just heterodox?

#15

Post by LittleHamster » Fri May 11, 2018 4:16 am

BavarianWheels wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:04 pm
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:I don't want to fling mud,........
It's been quite some time since I've been on this forum...a few years maybe?
.
.

I'm open to attempt to answer any questions you all may have.
.
.
Wow, I just found this thread and now realize what all the fuss was about :-) I'm learning about the SDA !

I have some questions for Bavarian (but these are more personal questions rather than doctrinal).

Were you brought up in the SDA as a child ? If not, how did you get involved with the SDA ? Why do you follow your particular religious denomination over the many other ones ? Is it because friends and family are involved? Is it because that from what you read and understand about the teachings that this is the better church to be in ? Have you been born again ? Have you received the Holy Spirit ? Have you received any supernatural signs from above which may indicate you are on the right track ?

BTW, You don't need to answer these if you feel the questions are too personal.

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