1stjohn0666 wrote:The proper name of God the Father is Yaweh, the proper name of (trinitarian speaking) "God the son" is Jesus. The Holy Spirit is just the Holy Spirit. In the Creeds it says we are not to confound or "confuse" the persons. So if Jesus is Yaweh isn't that "confusing" the persons?
People have pointed out to you in other threads, and even earlier in this one, that YHVH doesn't mean specifically "the Father." And "trinitarian speaking," there isn't a proper name for Jesus (other than, well, Jesus, maybe; although see Revelation 19:12), or for the Holy Spirit, or for the Father. If you simply disagreed with this assertion, then you could've provided a Scriptural reason why, but you simply repeated what you said before.
1stjohn0666 wrote:As I understand the (Creedal) triangle of the trinity, and Judaism YHVH IS the Father. The Father is not the son, the son is not the HS, the son is not the Father.....etc, but they are one God. YHVH is a proper name. So where in the bible is Jesus Jehovah/Yaweh/HaShem (Tanakh).... A lot of controversy on this one. THANKS SO FAR PEOPLE
As far as a Scripture that refers to Jesus as Hashem, in the Tanakh, Jeremiah 23:5-6 is one. It says
"'Behold, the days are coming,' declares Hashem,
'When I will raise up for David a Righteous Branch;
And He will reign as King and act wisely
And do justice and righteousness in the land.
In His days Judah will be saved,
And Isra'el will dwell securely;
And this is His Name by which He will be called,
"Hashem Tzidkeinu (YHVH our Righteousness)."'"
As far as the New Testament, it (as I'm sure you know) doesn't use the Name YHVH ever, and follows the Jewish tradition that still exists this day of replacing the Name with "Lord," or kurios
in Greek, which was used in the Septuagint. Let's look at Philippians 2:9-11.
"For this reason also, G-d highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the Name which is above every name, so that at the Name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, AND THAT EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS that Jesus the Messiah is Lord (Kurios
), to the glory of G-d the Father."
So Jesus has the Name which is above every name, and every knee of every angel ("who are in heaven"), every human ("and on earth"), and every demon ("and under the earth") will bow to Him. And, most importantly, every tongue will confess that Jesus is Kurios
Now, the words in all capitals are quotations from a passage in the Tanakh, specifically Isaiah 45:23. It says,
"I have sworn by Myself,
The Word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance."
("The Word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness" Note: Remember that it's said of the Messiah (the Word) that He will be called "Hashem our Righteousness")
So here, even getting past titles and words and what-not, Hashem clearly says that every knee will bow to HIM, and every tongue will swear allegiance to HIM. And yet, Paul says this is to happen to Jesus. Strange, and contradictory, if Jesus is not Hashem.
Also, as I said earlier (and again, as I'm sure you know), Kurios
was the Septuagint's way of saying the Hebrew Adonai
, which is what Jewish tradition substituted YHVH for when pronounced. So for Paul to say, while quoting from a Tanakh passage, that "every tongue will confess" to Jesus in and of itself indicates that He is Hashem, but, he goes further and says that they will confess that He is Kurios
. Hashem. YHVH. Anyway you want to say it, it's saying the same thing.
YHVH is not JUST the Father. Trinitarianly speaking, YHVH is the G-dhead in all its fullness, Father, Word, and Spirit. Each individual Person of the Trinity is YHVH in His Own right. Yet, the Father is NOT the Word/Son, the Word/Son is NOT the Spirit, and the Spirit is NOT the Father.
It's as simple as that. And please, don't just ignore these points with another assertion of your own. If your position is true or reasonable, you'll be able to answer them.
"The prophet is a man who feels fiercely. G-d has thrust a burden upon his soul, and he is bowed and stunned at man's fierce greed. Frightful is the agony of man; no human voice can convey its full terror. Prophecy is the voice that G-d has lent to the silent agony, a voice to the plundered poor, to the profaned riches of the world. It is a form of living, a crossing point of G-d and man."
- Abraham Joshua Heschel