Jesus is YHVH??

Discussions surrounding the various other faiths who deviate from mainstream Christian doctrine such as LDS and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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1stjohn0666
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Jesus is YHVH??

#1

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:46 am

I seen this on one of the home pages, without the question marks. So my question is... Is Evidence for God and science a trinitarian theme or oneness theme? If Jesus is Yaweh then it is safe to say it is of the oneness doctrine rather than the trinity. Correct me if I am wrong here as I do not know... please and thank you.

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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

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Post by RazorSwift » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:25 am

1stjohn0666 wrote:I seen this on one of the home pages, without the question marks. So my question is... Is Evidence for God and science a trinitarian theme or oneness theme? If Jesus is Yaweh then it is safe to say it is of the oneness doctrine rather than the trinity. Correct me if I am wrong here as I do not know... please and thank you.
Jesus is YHWH, he's not the Father but a distinct person (the Son) within the Triune God.
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1stjohn0666
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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

#3

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:40 am

Thanks Razor,
My question was ... Is Evidence for God and science a trinitarian theme or oneness theme? Maybe I should of left it at that.

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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

#4

Post by RickD » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:40 am

John, from the home site:
http://www.godandscience.org/beliefs.html
Clearly Trinitarian.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

#5

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:58 am

You guys forget that for 1John, YHWH = The Father.
So, by saying that Jesus is YHWH, we are saying, according to 1John, that Jesus = The father.
The Trinity sates that, IF YHWH is the term given to the bring we know as "GOD", then Jesus is YHWH BUT that the being called YHWH is a Triune being that is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Trinity does NOT say that YHWH is The Father and that the Son is The Father.

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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

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Post by RickD » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:07 am

Yes Paul, 1stjohn0666 believes Yahweh=the Father. And, it seems we can explain it to him until we're blue in the face, but he just doesn't understand the trinity. I've posted many sites that explain in clear English, what the trinity is, and what the trinity isn't.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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PaulSacramento
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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

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Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:25 am

RickD wrote:Yes Paul, 1stjohn0666 believes Yahweh=the Father. And, it seems we can explain it to him until we're blue in the face, but he just doesn't understand the trinity. I've posted many sites that explain in clear English, what the trinity is, and what the trinity isn't.
It is a very common view with JW's as well and pretty much all that deny the Trinity.
Until the mental block that associates GOD= The Father and not God = the term used to describe the supreme creator-being, is removed any explanation falls short.
Of course to put ANY limitation of God makes no sense, but hey, to each their own I guess.

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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

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Post by 1stjohn0666 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:54 am

As I understand the (Creedal) triangle of the trinity, and Judaism YHVH IS the Father. The Father is not the son, the son is not the HS, the son is not the Father.....etc, but they are one God. YHVH is a proper name. So where in the bible is Jesus Jehovah/Yaweh/HaShem (Tanakh).... A lot of controversy on this one. THANKS SO FAR PEOPLE

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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

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Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:13 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:As I understand the (Creedal) triangle of the trinity, and Judaism YHVH IS the Father. The Father is not the son, the son is not the HS, the son is not the Father.....etc, but they are one God. YHVH is a proper name. So where in the bible is Jesus Jehovah/Yaweh/HaShem (Tanakh).... A lot of controversy on this one. THANKS SO FAR PEOPLE
1John, do you believe that anyone in the OT saw God directly? or even heard God directly or did they "see" and "hear" His Word?

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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

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Post by 1stjohn0666 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:42 pm

Not him personally, but an image of him.

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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

#11

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:00 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:Not him personally, but an image of him.
So they saw an Image of God?
Wouldn't that mean that the GOJ is wrong? when it says that Jesus said: No one has ever seen God ?

And since Jesus is the exact image and representation of God, doesn't that mean that Who they saw as Jesus in his pre-incarnate form?

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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

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Post by RickD » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:42 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:As I understand the (Creedal) triangle of the trinity, and Judaism YHVH IS the Father. The Father is not the son, the son is not the HS, the son is not the Father.....etc, but they are one God. YHVH is a proper name. So where in the bible is Jesus Jehovah/Yaweh/HaShem (Tanakh).... A lot of controversy on this one. THANKS SO FAR PEOPLE
There's only controversy with you here, John. Nobody else here is denying Christ's deity.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

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Post by RazorSwift » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:56 pm

And since Jesus is the exact image and representation of God, doesn't that mean that Who they saw as Jesus in his pre-incarnate form?
Lots of theophanies in the Old Testament eh? I like the one of Manoah and his wife seeing God (where Manoah freaked out thinking he was going to die since he saw God) and when YHWH ate with Abraham and Sarai in Genesis 18.
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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

#14

Post by B. W. » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:22 pm

RazorSwift wrote:
And since Jesus is the exact image and representation of God, doesn't that mean that Who they saw as Jesus in his pre-incarnate form?
Lots of theophanies in the Old Testament eh? I like the one of Manoah and his wife seeing God (where Manoah freaked out thinking he was going to die since he saw God) and when YHWH ate with Abraham and Sarai in Genesis 18.
Yes, that is correct Razorswift, YHWH is the name for HaElohim. In that name is found the three panim/paniym of one God that we have as identified in the NT as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In the OT we have YHWH speaking and the way to tell which of God's pamim is speaking is easy once you catch on and requires knowing your bible both OT and NT. Sometimes YHWH means - HaElohim (Godead presence/essense) in total, or YHWH the Father speaks, so does YHWH the SON (preincarnate Jesus), So does YHWH the Holy Spirit.

What oneness only people as well as cultist like john666 of the WAY International, JW, Christdelphelians, etc do is reduce God's oneness as a singular oneness - just as we see in this world -same as ZEUS was a singular being - to them God is in this image only. This is in Violation of Exo 20:1-8 - making God into an image like what's in the world regarding His state of Oneness.

In Isaiah- YHWH speaks and reveals that there is NONE LIKE HIM. Therefore his oneness is plural - and echaud and not and echid. What Oneness only and cultist people fail to understand that God is self existing and therefore the three Panim/paniym that makeup God's spiritual oneness - each are self existing as well and since self-existing are three persons/panim. YHWH is the plural One in his oneness and not a singular in his oneness. How can God take an oath to himself - to Abraham three times - or Jacob as well - if not all three confirm the oath? Think about it?

What does a spiritual being look like? What does a presence look like? We know from Romans chapter one that Paul write that we see the evidence of God in his creation. We are created in His image of tri-part being. However our flesh/blood, two distinct parts - with differing attribute/functions, are not self existing, whereas our spiritual part (what is identified by biology by bio-electrical impulses as evidence of the spirit existence) was created to self exist at birth.

Jesus - the second Panim of God enter into humanity and to do so, He stepped out of his godhood and joined himself to humanity and thus spoke from the human perspective. It is from that human perspective that cultist like john666 of the WAY International, JW, Christdelphelians, etc confuse to mean He was less than God - a created being - or angelic angel.. They refuse to acknowledge who Jesus is and what he came etc do.. They fail to see God as the Only Plural One. They teach another Jesus who can't save or if he did as a creature, nullifies many bible quotes YHWH (Pluralness) spoke that only YHWH can save. Often the one YHWH saying these things, is the preincarnate Jesus speaking...

I am only being brief here and concise - in the Thread I started years ago entitled = OT Concept of God - I address these points in more details. Looking at it again - it is by no means complete bu enough there to help the reader gain a better grasp of God.
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Re: Jesus is YHVH??

#15

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:09 pm

The proper name of God the Father is Yaweh, the proper name of (trinitarian speaking) "God the son" is Jesus. The Holy Spirit is just the Holy Spirit. In the Creeds it says we are not to confound or "confuse" the persons. So if Jesus is Yaweh isn't that "confusing" the persons?

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