Answers for B.W.

Discussions surrounding the various other faiths who deviate from mainstream Christian doctrine such as LDS and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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B. W.
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Re: Answers for B.W.

#76

Post by B. W. » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:15 am

1stjohn0666 wrote: I don't subscribe to the "trinity theory" so you can stop asking if I believe Father, son, HS are a trinity
.
The HS is God in action with his own creation. You asked for simplicity.

"So that God can be all in all" 1 Cor 15:24-28 The Father gave the sheep to his son, and the son must return the sheep to his Father who is "the only true God" John 17:3

We are saved "through" the blood of Christ. God sent his son, (who is not God) to come and redeem us from our sins. John 3:36
This still does not answer the question: What do you mean by the Holy Spirit as the power of God in action with his own creation?

Please define what you mean by the word action - thank you.

You also still have not explained clearly at all, what you meant by, "We are saved "through" the blood of Christ… to redeem us from our sins."

Do you mean Jesus saved us from past sins?

Do you mean Jesus saved us from present sins?

Do you mean Jesus saved us from future sins?

Also, how do you define sins or sins?
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Re: Answers for B.W.

#77

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:28 am

Jesus is not the Father so Jesus cannot be God "incarnate" Jesus has a Father who is the "only true God" God produced a son which was born a virgin birth, and I think God can make something "perfect" as we will see when Christ returns.
God in action with his own creation.... God does things, the fruits, gifts, conviction, repentance... etc.

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Re: Answers for B.W.

#78

Post by RickD » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:24 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:
Jesus is not the Father (as oneness claim) nor is he "a" God like the trinitarians claim. The trinity at it's best is POLYTHEISM IN DISGUISE. Jesus is always subordinate to his God (remember Jesus said that) 2 Cor 15:24-28... Jesus has to give back what was given to him, as the bible says it does.
John, you have no idea what you are arguing against. Trinitarians don't believe Jesus is "a" God. And, the trinity is not Polytheism in disguise. It's bad enough that you don't believe what scripture clearly says about Jesus being God, but then you make statements like this, that just show your outright ignorance. If you are going to argue against something, the least you could do is understand what you're arguing against. Read this. Then if you don't understand, ask questions. We will help you understand, if you are open :http://carm.org/what-trinity
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Answers for B.W.

#79

Post by B. W. » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:57 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:Jesus is not the Father so Jesus cannot be God "incarnate" Jesus has a Father who is the "only true God" God produced a son which was born a virgin birth, and I think God can make something "perfect" as we will see when Christ returns.
God in action with his own creation.... God does things, the fruits, gifts, conviction, repentance... etc.
So I take this to mean that according to you POV (Point of View) God the Father was in action with his own creation Jesus Christ?

And that you mean that the Holy Spirit is just another of God the Father's action within creation – a force – a power and nothing more – correct?

Does this imply to you that God relates to creation this way in order to make a family – a true church of gods like Jesus was (you made it a point that people are called elohim - recall) in god class but not like God the Father – just members of his family so that others can join this class? Is this what you are alluding too when you mean: God in action with his own creation

What of the questions regarding sin I asked – are you going to answer these as well too?
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Re: Answers for B.W.

#80

Post by cheezerrox » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:49 pm

1stJohn, is G-d Love like it says at 1 John 4:8?
"The prophet is a man who feels fiercely. G-d has thrust a burden upon his soul, and he is bowed and stunned at man's fierce greed. Frightful is the agony of man; no human voice can convey its full terror. Prophecy is the voice that G-d has lent to the silent agony, a voice to the plundered poor, to the profaned riches of the world. It is a form of living, a crossing point of G-d and man."
- Abraham Joshua Heschel

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Re: Answers for B.W.

#81

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:44 am

I don't see any reason to disagree

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Re: Answers for B.W.

#82

Post by B. W. » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:29 am

1stjohn0666 wrote:Jesus is not the Father so Jesus cannot be God "incarnate" Jesus has a Father who is the "only true God" God produced a son which was born a virgin birth, and I think God can make something "perfect" as we will see when Christ returns.
God in action with his own creation.... God does things, the fruits, gifts, conviction, repentance... etc.
So you are a follower of Charles Taze Russell and his Restoration Light groups...

The Linkk below tell who Mr Russel was and did... founded cult groups...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell

John666 you are in a cult...
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Re: Answers for B.W.

#83

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:38 am

I am not JW or a sub-form

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Re: Answers for B.W.

#84

Post by B. W. » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:32 am

1stjohn0666 wrote:I am not JW or a sub-form

Mr CT Russell help make many different cults - not just the JW's... groups like the WAY also owe a lot to him too... as do Mormon's and Christdelphains...

You believe in his writings and provided links and stated you agreeded with these - so if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, walks like a duck, then tell us here it is not a Duck is a stretch...
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Answers for B.W.

#85

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:24 pm

The teaching of a One God perspective is certainly a good thing. I don't see where the Jw's are wrong in saying the Father is the only true God. Paul in many of his letters says "glory to the Father and God, of our Lord Jesus" This clearly tells me that Paul did not subscribe to the trinity theory.

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Re: Answers for B.W.

#86

Post by RickD » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:41 pm

John, let's get back to basics again, because you don't seem to get it. The trinity is not a "theory". Please, at least understand what you're arguing against:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

When you understand that, you can move on to the truth that Paul absolutely believed in Jesus' deity:http://carm.org/paul-think-jesus-was-god
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Answers for B.W.

#87

Post by cheezerrox » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:46 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:I don't see any reason to disagree
Okay, then we're still on the same page. What would you say is necessary for love? As far as what it needs to exist? How many people there need to be for it to exist?
"The prophet is a man who feels fiercely. G-d has thrust a burden upon his soul, and he is bowed and stunned at man's fierce greed. Frightful is the agony of man; no human voice can convey its full terror. Prophecy is the voice that G-d has lent to the silent agony, a voice to the plundered poor, to the profaned riches of the world. It is a form of living, a crossing point of G-d and man."
- Abraham Joshua Heschel

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Re: Answers for B.W.

#88

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:47 am

1stjohn0666 wrote:The teaching of a One God perspective is certainly a good thing. I don't see where the Jw's are wrong in saying the Father is the only true God. Paul in many of his letters says "glory to the Father and God, of our Lord Jesus" This clearly tells me that Paul did not subscribe to the trinity theory.
Honestly, Paul is probably the most "trinitarian" of all the writers we have in the NT.
God is NOT a name, but a "classification". When Jesus said " My God and Your God" to his followers when telling them where he was going back to, He was stating that as the Son of God, He still viewed His Father as God, and rightly so, but that doesn't make Jesus' nature any less "god" than it was.
You seem to view that Jesus' nature is dependent on his "submission" of authority and respect to His Father.
If Jesus says that The Father is His God, then Jesus can't have the same nature as God, but that doesn't make any sense because a beings nature is NOT dependent on how He/she/it views another of the same nature.

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Re: Answers for B.W.

#89

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:48 am

I have to ask you, what is your view of the Holy Spirit in all this?

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Re: Answers for B.W.

#90

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:13 pm

When Jesus said " My God and Your God" to his followers when telling them where he was going back to....
"going back" is not in the text.

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