Batteling Christianity

Discussions surrounding the various other faiths who deviate from mainstream Christian doctrine such as LDS and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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rodyshusband
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Batteling Christianity

#1

Post by rodyshusband » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:04 pm

I am quite capable when it comes to answering sincere questions from individuals who question my faith.
I have difficulty engaging in conversations with fellow "Christians"! It seems the past year or so, I see an increase in arguing among Christians..young earth/old earth, the rapture, losing salvation, homosexuality: these seem to be the current "hot button" topics that touch off a firestorm. On another Christian website, the mods have concocted a "list" of "apostates", which includes Billy Graham, James Dobson, Ravi Zacharias, Charles Colson, Lee Strobel, Charles Swindoll...in fact, pretty much everyone except John MacArthur and Kirk Cameron. How exhausting...!

No doubt, we can question the emerging church and the likes of obvious charlatans like Benny Hinn...but presuming one is an "apostate" simply because of "form" is dangerous. In my studies, I have found that virtually every book in the new testament warns of or mentions the perils of false doctrines. Discernment is key when using resources to study the bible and grow in the faith.

I am grateful that this site has remained civil in debates despite some heated points, at times.
How do some of you handle this issue when you come across it, if you have?
I'm probably looking more for support than answers.
Thanks!
“Christianity provides a unified answer for the whole of life.” -- Francis Schaeffer

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#2

Post by B. W. » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:31 pm

Hi rodyshusband,

Well, for starters we have guidelines that are enforced. We deal with a lot with trolls and people who come onto this site from aberrant and cultic traditions that either fish for converts, or stir up debate to push their cause forward, or invoke discussions in attempt to stir up strife between sincere Christians. These people usually will not last long here.

We also have committed moderators from various parts of the Body of Christ that watch over these forms and we are not afraid to cast out scoffers. The BBE version of the bible puts it like this:

Proverbs 22:10Send away the man of pride, and argument will go out; truly fighting and shame will come to an end.” BBE

I have been to several sites where this does not happen and things get way out of hand. The Amazon Christianity forum is the worst example of things getting out of hand as well as where a lot of aberrant and cultic traditions are passed off as truth. There is no one in charge to enforce any guidelines there.

Here we implement the guidelines and make it known that civil debate and civil discussion is welcome and that such discussions can freely take whatever path they take unless someone is fishing for converts to an aberrant and cultic religious group, or seeking to deliberately stir up strife then discussion is cut off. It is cut off more for the readers who come to this site who are young in the Lord so they have some protection from wolves in sheep clothing.

We attempt to teach the fundamentals of the faith here, which brings me to Richard Deem, the founder of this site who quietly sits in the background watching this all. Rich had a task in 1994 of answering letters and inquiries as a volunteer for “Reason to Believe.” From this experience grew forth this site. This forum carries on his tradition to help people learn of Christ and attempt to answer some of the toughest questions posed by non-believers and believers. Please Read about Rich from this link

This is what we do here :esmile:

God Bless!
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Re: Batteling Christianity

#3

Post by Cross.eyed » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:12 am

This is of course on a more personal level, but I don't start off by telling someone that the're wrong even if I am sure they are. After the person reveals his/her position, I ask if they would explain how they have arrived at that conclusion. Usually, they are more than happy to answer.

The second thing I don't do is say "I'm right and you are wrong!" This seems more often than not, to put them on the defensive and in the mode of an emotional argument, which makes it difficult to find common ground. Establishing commonality helps to keep at bay any judgment on a personal level. If it is at all possible, I give them the benefit of doubt and respect their right to claim.

Lastly, I listen to everything they say up to the point where they start repeating themselves, if that is the case.

By paying attention to the other person in a sincere way, I can sometimes get an understanding of how they have come to the erroneous conviction, but more importantly, they often respond in kind which makes the debate flow more evenly. By giving respect it is likely to be returned in the manner of listening to what I might have to say about the matter. Even if we don't agree, it leaves the door open for another debate at another time when maybe I can be more convincing.

Whatever the outcome, I always learn from others by having a civil debate. It is the uncivil argument that very often goes nowhere.
I am the wretch the song refers to.

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#4

Post by Gman » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:00 pm

rodyshusband wrote:I am quite capable when it comes to answering sincere questions from individuals who question my faith.
I have difficulty engaging in conversations with fellow "Christians"! It seems the past year or so, I see an increase in arguing among Christians..young earth/old earth, the rapture, losing salvation, homosexuality: these seem to be the current "hot button" topics that touch off a firestorm. On another Christian website, the mods have concocted a "list" of "apostates", which includes Billy Graham, James Dobson, Ravi Zacharias, Charles Colson, Lee Strobel, Charles Swindoll...in fact, pretty much everyone except John MacArthur and Kirk Cameron. How exhausting...!
Strange indeed... I usually find that the one's that accuse others of being apostates are usually apostates themselves... :P
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#5

Post by Zebulon » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:37 am

Gman wrote: Strange indeed... I usually find that the one's that accuse others of being apostates are usually apostates themselves... :P
:pound:
I go with you on that. May the one without sins trow the first rock... or something like that.
rodyshusband wrote:I am quite capable when it comes to answering sincere questions from individuals who question my faith.
I have difficulty engaging in conversations with fellow "Christians"! It seems the past year or so, I see an increase in arguing among Christians..young earth/old earth, the rapture, losing salvation, homosexuality: these seem to be the current "hot button" topics that touch off a firestorm.
True. I like to look around, to open myself a bit more... I found few places where I can read on Muslim-Christians, Jewish-Christians, and else. They have different approach and maybe it is because their faith came from a different state of faith at start and evoluted towards christianity... maybe. I think it should be simple, not complicated.

I was not there 14 billion years ago so do I was not there a 10 thousand years ago.

She was, she is, she will be. This is a saying from Mahatma Ghandi to a man that just lost his little girl...

Cheers

Zebulon

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#6

Post by catherine » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:44 am

B.W,
I must say I feel humbled after reading your post. I am not a strong Christian so I tend to be like a boat that's floating aimlessly here and there. I was raised a Roman Catholic and stopped going to church at 11. I always believed in God but wasn't sure about Him. When I was 14 I was skiving off school one day and some JWs came knocking. They really convinced me on lots of things but I couldn't keep to the perfect standards and had a problem with some of their beliefs (blood, 144000,). I don't go to any church and my only Christian contact is here. I'm 41 now and feel like I've wasted lots of years of not bothering with God. I am drawn to this site and find a lot of the posts helpful and interesting. So unfortunately I bring with me 'aberrant beliefs' possibly, and hot headedness, but I shall try to respect this forum. I just want others to know that I am not trying to win converts to my beliefs as I'm not sure of them myself. The main thing that makes me able to be a member here is that I believe in the God of the Bible and Jesus is His Son and will come back to sort all this mess out maybe sooner rather than later.

Regards

Catherine

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#7

Post by B. W. » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:59 pm

catherine wrote:B.W, I must say I feel humbled after reading your post. I am not a strong Christian so I tend to be like a boat that's floating aimlessly here and there. I was raised a Roman Catholic and stopped going to church at 11. I always believed in God but wasn't sure about Him. When I was 14 I was skiving off school one day and some JWs came knocking. They really convinced me on lots of things but I couldn't keep to the perfect standards and had a problem with some of their beliefs (blood, 144000,). I don't go to any church and my only Christian contact is here. I'm 41 now and feel like I've wasted lots of years of not bothering with God. I am drawn to this site and find a lot of the posts helpful and interesting. So unfortunately I bring with me 'aberrant beliefs' possibly, and hot headedness, but I shall try to respect this forum. I just want others to know that I am not trying to win converts to my beliefs as I'm not sure of them myself. The main thing that makes me able to be a member here is that I believe in the God of the Bible and Jesus is His Son and will come back to sort all this mess out maybe sooner rather than later.

Regards …Catherine
Hi Catharine,

You describe how many people feel about being adrift and wasting a lot of years. Even for Christians, we too can feel the same about the modern Church and at times feel adrift and wasting our time. Ephesians 4:11-17 states the purpose of the Church is to make mature believers who are growing day by day to be a reflection of Christ like virtues wherever their station in life is at. The whole body of believers should be taught how to grow into this. It is a walk of love as Christ loved.

This love is not how we define love as tolerance, or blind acceptance. The Greek word translated love I am speaking about is the word Agape. Agape is a culmination of three other Greek words also used for love (Storge, eros, phileo). It contains these elements as well and was translated in the Septuagint denoting all three of these aspects as well.

However, there is a difference in Agape and this difference is further refined within the broad definition of the Hebrew word translated 'love.' Agape is the higher from of love that nurtures, cherishes, builds, trains, so that a person will come into their own. In the case of God's Agape — people will return to him to be nurtured, cherished, built, trained, equipped, etc so they'll come into her or his own reflection of Christ like virtue.

The Agape of the world has also nurtures, cherishes, builds, trains, and equips so that a person will come into their own as selfish and self seeking (1 John 2:16). We have been taught to limit the meaning of Agape as denoting unconditional — a love without conditions. While this is true about the nature of love, that definition alone misses the elements of nurturing, cherishing, building, training, and equipping unconditionally.

In other words, God loves so much that he does not want people to remain as they are but rather to change them — unconditionally. The change is on his terms, not ours, which is forgiveness through Christ work on the cross and resurrection. God unconditionally will send his Holy Spirit into our lives and unconditionally transform us in the image of Christ. Such love unconditionally will nurture, cherish, build, train, and equip those that place their trust in God's salvation.

God has been busy transforming the people in his Church, unconditionally. However, there are many who do not understand this unconditional demand. So for now, such experience little transformation in thier lives. This process is made slow because we resist the change God intends. We resist this change, more out of ignorance, because so much of what is taught in the modern Church neglects equipping God's people for the work of the ministry and building up believers which involves becoming mature in ones faith.

The work of the ministry is to shape people into becoming Christ like — read 2 Peter 1:2-11 for more on this subject. The leaders of the early Church once taught this but few nowadays do or understand how to teach. (Praise God for the ones that do! The laborers are truly few! ) I know that God will unconditionally awaken the modern Church to this need, all in due time. He maybe even awaking this in you and that could be a reason for feeling adrift and wasting a lot of years.

So, if any of you reading this are tired of living your life on your own, adrift, I recommend coming to Jesus Christ as the gospel proclaims and become a child of God in whom God's Love (Agape) will unconditionally nurture, cherish, build, train, and equip you which gives your life a new purpose and direction as well as helps you overcome and learn from the adversity that afflicts us all.

I am going to end with John chapter three. I will add comments in parenthesis that help refine the original Greek words and phrases used and in some cases add a comment for clarity.

John 3:14-21 Comments:

John 3:14-21, “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. (This is the work and purpose of the Cross forgiveness of sins— Note Romans 10:9-17 and Luke 12:8 and Luke 18:13-14)

“16 For God so loved (unconditionally nurtures, cherishes)the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world (leave the world as it is, fallen), but in order that the world might be saved (rescued from great danger) through him.

“18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned (left as they are, lost, adrift, in opposition to God), but whoever does not believe is condemned (left as they are, lost, adrift, in opposition to God — note Romans 1:16-32) already (--->now), because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (The only one who has power to forgive, save, and transform one into a new creation - Note 2 Co 5:17 and Gal 6:150).

“19 And this is the judgment (sundering, separation): the light (light expels darkness) has come into the world, and people loved (unconditionally nurture, cherish, build, train, and equip) the darkness rather than the light because their works (deeds, enterprise, undertakings produce) were evil (Blindness to their bad nature/condition that is diseased, corrupting, which produces toil, hardship, and ruin to others and themselves).

“20 For everyone who does wicked things (the above worthless things) hates (detest) the light (growth that light produces that expels darkness) and does not come to the light (growth that light produces), (in order that his works may not be reproved) lest his works should be exposed.

“21 But whoever does what is true (meaning: believing in Christ [who stated he is Truth] to be transformed by God's hands) comes to the light (Note — metaphorically light causes growth and expels darkness), so that it may be clearly seen that his works (occupation, deeds now and will be and) have been carried out in (in/by) God (note Ephesians 1:4-7 to clarify this last sentence more fully).” ESV

Conclusions:

Sadly, many in the modern Church neglect the saving truth that God's love cast out and expels darkness in our lives so that we can become partakers of the divine character of the Lord Jesus Christ. (See Romans 8:29 and 2 Co 3:18). This 'saving truth' also transforms us so that we learn to love unconditionally evidenced by how we nurture cherish, build, train, and equip those whom we have contact with (with wisdom and discernment of the Holy Spirit along with learning these skills developed / taught by apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastor/teachers within the Church i.e. Leadership within the Church).

We also learn to love God unconditionally evidenced by how we nurture, cherish, build, train, and equip our personal relationship with the Lord through scripture reading, prayer, talking and reasoning with the Lord. This is a process that transforms us and expels darkness from our lives. It confronts us and test - do we love darkness more than light? If so, light expels darkness may become very painful but know, once expelled what joy that awaits you in new freedom from the old dark ties that had you bound to slavery!

So again let me conclude with this statement: if any of you reading this are tired of living your life on your own, adrift, I recommend coming to Jesus Christ as the gospel proclaims and become a child of God in whom God's Love (Agape) will unconditionally nurture, cherish, build, train, and equip you which gives your life a new purpose and direction as well as helps you overcome and learn from adversity that afflicts us all.

The Lord wants to bestow his riches on all who call on him, his greatest is love. In this you find life. However, sin, lostness, adriftness, aimlesses has taken hold. The cruel taskmaster of darkness has taken hold. Our sins, separate us from God and the riches he wishes to bestow.

Sin ugliness and arrogance ruins one's life keeping one wandering aimless in a wasteland seeking hope or a drop of water that can really satisfy. You never find any anywhere at all. You find only illusions that first appear as real but closer inspections prove these all a mirage.

In this, you discovered you need help from the divine. Will you let the Lord begin the process that will restore true meaning and purpose to your life? If so please, do as the tax collector and pray likewise as he:

Luke 18:13, “But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!” ESV

Romans 10:9-13, “…because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." ESV

John 3:21, “…But whoever does what is true (meaning: believing in Christ [who stated he is Truth] to be transformed by God's hands) comes to the light (Note — light causes growth and expels darkness), so that it may be clearly seen that his/her works (occupation, deeds now and will be and) have been carried out in (in/by) God.” ESV

In this, you'll find what eternal life is all about…
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#8

Post by Zebulon » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:19 pm

B. W. wrote:
catherine wrote:B.W, I must say I feel humbled after reading your post. I am not a strong Christian so I tend to be like a boat that's floating aimlessly here and there. I was raised a Roman Catholic and stopped going to church at 11. I always believed in God but wasn't sure about Him. When I was 14 I was skiving off school one day and some JWs came knocking. They really convinced me on lots of things but I couldn't keep to the perfect standards and had a problem with some of their beliefs (blood, 144000,). I don't go to any church and my only Christian contact is here. I'm 41 now and feel like I've wasted lots of years of not bothering with God. I am drawn to this site and find a lot of the posts helpful and interesting. So unfortunately I bring with me 'aberrant beliefs' possibly, and hot headedness, but I shall try to respect this forum. I just want others to know that I am not trying to win converts to my beliefs as I'm not sure of them myself. The main thing that makes me able to be a member here is that I believe in the God of the Bible and Jesus is His Son and will come back to sort all this mess out maybe sooner rather than later.

Regards …Catherine
Hi Catharine,

You describe how many people feel about being adrift and wasting a lot of years. Even for Christians, we too can feel the same about the modern Church and at times feel adrift and wasting our time. Ephesians 4:11-17 states the purpose of the Church is to make mature believers who are growing day by day to be a reflection of Christ like virtues wherever their station in life is at. The whole body of believers should be taught how to grow into this. It is a walk of love as Christ loved.

This love is not how we define love as tolerance, or blind acceptance. The Greek word translated love I am speaking about is the word Agape. Agape is a culmination of three other Greek words also used for love (Storge, eros, phileo). It contains these elements as well and was translated in the Septuagint denoting all three of these aspects as well.

However, there is a difference in Agape and this difference is further refined within the broad definition of the Hebrew word translated 'love.' Agape is the higher from of love that nurtures, cherishes, builds, trains, so that a person will come into their own. In the case of God's Agape — people will return to him to be nurtured, cherished, built, trained, equipped, etc so they'll come into her or his own reflection of Christ like virtue.

The Agape of the world has also nurtures, cherishes, builds, trains, and equips so that a person will come into their own as selfish and self seeking (1 John 2:16). We have been taught to limit the meaning of Agape as denoting unconditional — a love without conditions. While this is true about the nature of love, that definition alone misses the elements of nurturing, cherishing, building, training, and equipping unconditionally.

In other words, God loves so much that he does not want people to remain as they are but rather to change them — unconditionally. The change is on his terms, not ours, which is forgiveness through Christ work on the cross and resurrection. God unconditionally will send his Holy Spirit into our lives and unconditionally transform us in the image of Christ. Such love unconditionally will nurture, cherish, build, train, and equip those that place their trust in God's salvation.

God has been busy transforming the people in his Church, unconditionally. However, there are many who do not understand this unconditional demand. So for now, such experience little transformation in thier lives. This process is made slow because we resist the change God intends. We resist this change, more out of ignorance, because so much of what is taught in the modern Church neglects equipping God's people for the work of the ministry and building up believers which involves becoming mature in ones faith.

The work of the ministry is to shape people into becoming Christ like — read 2 Peter 1:2-11 for more on this subject. The leaders of the early Church once taught this but few nowadays do or understand how to teach. (Praise God for the ones that do! The laborers are truly few! ) I know that God will unconditionally awaken the modern Church to this need, all in due time. He maybe even awaking this in you and that could be a reason for feeling adrift and wasting a lot of years.

So, if any of you reading this are tired of living your life on your own, adrift, I recommend coming to Jesus Christ as the gospel proclaims and become a child of God in whom God's Love (Agape) will unconditionally nurture, cherish, build, train, and equip you which gives your life a new purpose and direction as well as helps you overcome and learn from the adversity that afflicts us all.

I am going to end with John chapter three. I will add comments in parenthesis that help refine the original Greek words and phrases used and in some cases add a comment for clarity.

John 3:14-21 Comments:

John 3:14-21, “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. (This is the work and purpose of the Cross forgiveness of sins— Note Romans 10:9-17 and Luke 12:8 and Luke 18:13-14)

“16 For God so loved (unconditionally nurtures, cherishes)the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world (leave the world as it is, fallen), but in order that the world might be saved (rescued from great danger) through him.

“18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned (left as they are, lost, adrift, in opposition to God), but whoever does not believe is condemned (left as they are, lost, adrift, in opposition to God — note Romans 1:16-32) already (--->now), because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (The only one who has power to forgive, save, and transform one into a new creation - Note 2 Co 5:17 and Gal 6:150).

“19 And this is the judgment (sundering, separation): the light (light expels darkness) has come into the world, and people loved (unconditionally nurture, cherish, build, train, and equip) the darkness rather than the light because their works (deeds, enterprise, undertakings produce) were evil (Blindness to their bad nature/condition that is diseased, corrupting, which produces toil, hardship, and ruin to others and themselves).

“20 For everyone who does wicked things (the above worthless things) hates (detest) the light (growth that light produces that expels darkness) and does not come to the light (growth that light produces), (in order that his works may not be reproved) lest his works should be exposed.

“21 But whoever does what is true (meaning: believing in Christ [who stated he is Truth] to be transformed by God's hands) comes to the light (Note — metaphorically light causes growth and expels darkness), so that it may be clearly seen that his works (occupation, deeds now and will be and) have been carried out in (in/by) God (note Ephesians 1:4-7 to clarify this last sentence more fully).” ESV

Conclusions:

Sadly, many in the modern Church neglect the saving truth that God's love cast out and expels darkness in our lives so that we can become partakers of the divine character of the Lord Jesus Christ. (See Romans 8:29 and 2 Co 3:18). This 'saving truth' also transforms us so that we learn to love unconditionally evidenced by how we nurture cherish, build, train, and equip those whom we have contact with (with wisdom and discernment of the Holy Spirit along with learning these skills developed / taught by apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastor/teachers within the Church i.e. Leadership within the Church).

We also learn to love God unconditionally evidenced by how we nurture, cherish, build, train, and equip our personal relationship with the Lord through scripture reading, prayer, talking and reasoning with the Lord. This is a process that transforms us and expels darkness from our lives. It confronts us and test - do we love darkness more than light? If so, light expels darkness may become very painful but know, once expelled what joy that awaits you in new freedom from the old dark ties that had you bound to slavery!

So again let me conclude with this statement: if any of you reading this are tired of living your life on your own, adrift, I recommend coming to Jesus Christ as the gospel proclaims and become a child of God in whom God's Love (Agape) will unconditionally nurture, cherish, build, train, and equip you which gives your life a new purpose and direction as well as helps you overcome and learn from adversity that afflicts us all.

The Lord wants to bestow his riches on all who call on him, his greatest is love. In this you find life. However, sin, lostness, adriftness, aimlesses has taken hold. The cruel taskmaster of darkness has taken hold. Our sins, separate us from God and the riches he wishes to bestow.

Sin ugliness and arrogance ruins one's life keeping one wandering aimless in a wasteland seeking hope or a drop of water that can really satisfy. You never find any anywhere at all. You find only illusions that first appear as real but closer inspections prove these all a mirage.

In this, you discovered you need help from the divine. Will you let the Lord begin the process that will restore true meaning and purpose to your life? If so please, do as the tax collector and pray likewise as he:

Luke 18:13, “But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!” ESV

Romans 10:9-13, “…because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." ESV

John 3:21, “…But whoever does what is true (meaning: believing in Christ [who stated he is Truth] to be transformed by God's hands) comes to the light (Note — light causes growth and expels darkness), so that it may be clearly seen that his/her works (occupation, deeds now and will be and) have been carried out in (in/by) God.” ESV

In this, you'll find what eternal life is all about…
-
-
-
Hi B.W.

Scuse me for interferring, but why do you take 24 paragraphs to say I love you to catherine.

But it is your way, and I believe it is from your soul.

Zebulon

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#9

Post by Lufia » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:04 pm

I gave my life to God and asked forgiveness 7 months ago and it is the best decision in my life. If only people could experience being born again once in their life they would not go back in darkness. But the thing is that we have to make the 'move' first.

I have change and learn so much with the Holy Spirit it's incredible. I started at almost point zero with God. And the funny thing is that i'm learning in a strange way: for example i use to blaspheme but since day one, not anymore, i just don't wan't to blaspheme. A few months later i learn that the 3rd commandment is to not blaspheme! I was very surprise. Holy Spirit teach me first and then i read it in Bible. It's been like that for seven months.

People say that it's crazy to believe in God but they don't know what it is to have Him within you. A few days ago someone told me that those born again christians are stupid, silly and a bunch of other insults. At first i was really shock but then i felt sad for him. He just doesn't know what it is. If only people could "try it " for one day they would see how awesome God is and what He can do in their lives.

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#10

Post by B. W. » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:02 am

Lufia wrote:...People say that it's crazy to believe in God but they don't know what it is to have Him within you. A few days ago someone told me that those born again christians are stupid, silly and a bunch of other insults. At first i was really shock but then i felt sad for him. He just doesn't know what it is. If only people could "try it " for one day they would see how awesome God is and what He can do in their lives.
Hi Lufia,

You said it best. regarding those that make fun of Christians..."At first i was really shock but then i felt sad for him..." I feel the same way even after 28 years...

And also too Zebulon,

It is that sorrow for those that do not know Christ is what drives me to write 24 paragraphs. Readers will come to this site and read what we all write. I wrote to others through what Catherine revealed and pray that anyone who reads will come to his/her senses and find Christ and become born again just as Lufia wrote.

God's Blessing be upon you all!
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#11

Post by Lufia » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:13 am

And thank you for those 24 paragraphs! I appreciated them

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#12

Post by catherine » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:49 am

HI B.W, yes thanks for your reply. I don't think I've been born again as I'm sure I'd know about it and wouldn't carry on doing certain things I do but that's another subject. I wish our language was as rich as the Hebrew and Greek. We only have the one word for love and people confuse the real meaning but I know that God's love for us far surpasses our idea of love. Thanks again.

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#13

Post by B. W. » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:43 pm

catherine wrote:HI B.W, yes thanks for your reply. I don't think I've been born again as I'm sure I'd know about it and wouldn't carry on doing certain things I do but that's another subject. I wish our language was as rich as the Hebrew and Greek. We only have the one word for love and people confuse the real meaning but I know that God's love for us far surpasses our idea of love. Thanks again.
Thank you Catherine for your honesty and sincerity!

Would you like to be Born Again?
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
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Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#14

Post by catherine » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:29 am

HI B.W, you ask would I like to be born again? If that means knowing for sure that God is really there and He loves me and has forgiven me, then yes. I have prayed many times over the years about this and I never seem to change. I think the problem must be with me. Maybe I have sinned too much or against the Holy Spirit. I have never really felt that God is near to me and loves me so it's hard to not do certain things that God says are wrong but humans say aren't wrong (e.g living with someone you love but not being married to them). It's hard to step out in faith and try and reach God when I am so far away from Him. Anyway, I try and hold on in there but I usually get fed up and 'forget' about God for so long, and then I yearn for Him again and the cycle starts all over again. Is He really real???

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Re: Batteling Christianity

#15

Post by B. W. » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:43 am

catherine wrote:HI B.W, you ask would I like to be born again? If that means knowing for sure that God is really there and He loves me and has forgiven me, then yes. I have prayed many times over the years about this and I never seem to change. I think the problem must be with me. Maybe I have sinned too much or against the Holy Spirit. I have never really felt that God is near to me and loves me so it's hard to not do certain things that God says are wrong but humans say aren't wrong (e.g living with someone you love but not being married to them). It's hard to step out in faith and try and reach God when I am so far away from Him. Anyway, I try and hold on in there but I usually get fed up and 'forget' about God for so long, and then I yearn for Him again and the cycle starts all over again. Is He really real???
It sounds like you maybe discovering your own answer: the cycle starts all over again

For some reason, you are always being drawn back to the Lord. In fact - This drawing is recorded in the bible:

John 6:44, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him…”

John 6:65, “And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." ESV

So now is the time - a day of decision:

Matthew 11:28-30,Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." ESV

If you are serious in this matter and seek a new life that makes life, live, and shining, please join me and pray this simple prayer which I had written at the end of my book and now reedited here just for you:

Dear God, Lord Most High! I know nothing. I am tired of living my life and making things all ugly around me. People pull me this way and that. I make mistakes and I am not perfect. I keep feeling you draw me back. Here I am.

I ask you to forgive me and make me whole. Clean me up inside and calm my storm. Teach me, instruct me, guide me and never let me go. I stumble a lot. Fail a lot. I let you down a lot. I do not always say or do the right things a lot. Forgive me — make me new.

Dear Lord Jesus Christ, invade my life and help me make life, live, where I have been assigned. I need your Spirit of life blown inside me; please do this for me. Make me Born Again — blow your Spirit upon and inside me so I can really change this time and stop playing stupid games.

The nails tore your wrist causing your bones to pull apart for me. I do not understand why you did this, but please teach me. Dear Jesus, teach me the way I should go. Lead me to a real Church of your people so I can grow. Make me born again from above by the breath of Your Spirit. Amen
.”

What's the next step - you ask?

The next step can be the hardest. That involves finding a real Christian Church that holds to the orthodox Christians doctrines. In the UK, I do not know the state of the Church there. I have heard that there are good Churches in the UK. I'll Pray that the Lord will lead you to the right person who will open this door for you.

It is in the body of believers that you can grow stronger in your faith. Another thing to do is to look for a Bible Study Fellowship group (BSF) in the UK. BSF is a non-denominational Christian organization that has both women and men's bible study groups. You can web search the Name for details. People from all types of Churches come together and leave their agendas at the door. You'll receive a bible study guide and learn what the bible says in a non-threatening environment.

See -

http://www.bsfinternational.org/

for more details and note - Statement of Faith

They have what is called 'Intro Nights' usually held during the first week of the month where new people come and see if they like this style of bible study. That is when you go. But again this is up to you. Here you can plug in and find out what the Bible says and what it means to be a Christian.

In many countries, it is hard to find a good bible believing Church because the Church in many places has become dark because of bowing down to cultural and societal norms. I heard the Church of England has fallen pray to this. That is why I recommend - Bible Study Fellowship as a good place to start as it avoids this kind of thing and offers protection from wolves in sheep clothing. You can safely size up those that attend and see explore the local Church community and find a place where the Lord leads you too.

What is it all about?

Christianity is all about getting to know Jesus Christ and developing a personal one on one relationship as you would a friend. It takes time. When you pray, do not be all holy wordy — just talk to him as you would your closet friend. Do not hide anything, hide any thought or mask any feeling from him — he knows everything about you anyways. Talk with the Lord face to face manner. This is your first lesson — ask:

Matthew 7:7-11, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

“9 Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!”
ESV

Learn to ask him to hold you and let you know he is real. This may take time or it could happen sooner rather than later. Point is — ask and keep on knocking doing so, you learn of him and know him like you never have before.

God Bless You!

I pray that the LORD will bless and protect you, and that he will show you mercy and kindness. May the LORD be good to you and give you peace." Numbers 6:25-26 from the CEV
-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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