Where We Go When We Die?

Discussions surrounding the various other faiths who deviate from mainstream Christian doctrine such as LDS and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#76

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:29 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:If you think you are already immortal, you can hang out with Plato and his wonderful philosophical concept he had received from the Egyptians.
I'm sorry but what exactly are your views on the spirit?
Plato had incorrect views about the immortality of the SOUL and we know that soul can be killed.

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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#77

Post by B. W. » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:37 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:If you think you are already immortal, you can hang out with Plato and his wonderful philosophical concept he had received from the Egyptians.
Bible teaches human beings have a beginning - Plato's concept is wrong.

You actually need to get off the talking points of your POV and learn to think and reason for yourself.
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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#78

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:13 am

I agree that Plato's concept is wrong, but you are buying into it if you think you are already immortal.

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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#79

Post by B. W. » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:35 am

1stjohn0666 wrote:I agree that Plato's concept is wrong, but you are buying into it if you think you are already immortal.
You don't know Plato and you don't know the bible. If you read the link I provided - you would have never had made that false charge...

We had a beginning...
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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#80

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:57 am

Do you think that when you die, you don't really die?

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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#81

Post by B. W. » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:18 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:Do you think that when you die, you don't really die?
I know so as an empirical fact we continue on after we die - from firsthand experience on this very matter...

Here is some of what I learned...

2 Sam 14:14 contains a great truth as does Eccl 3:11, 14 – so does Luke 16:19-31 as well as Luke 23:43. Then again even the great principle of truth brought out is Isaiah 24:22 – verified by Ezekiel 32:18-31 and then also Rev 20:14

Have a nice day...
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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#82

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:15 pm

2 Sam 14:14 because we are dying a death and are like water, runs into the ground that no one stays, and God does not want to take away life, but consider themselves, not the outcasts that would offend him too. You must be reading some Gnostic/Plato influenced version.
I think you are buying into the serpents lie. "you shall not surely die"
The thief:
Verily I say unto you, today you will be with me in Paradise
Verily I say unto you today, you will be with me in Paradise
As we have translator bias and Platonic influence, people want to have the texts say what they do not. The Greek has no spacing of words nor punctuation, so depending on the the translators view of life after death, there is controversy. I believe that we will surely die and don't give in to the serpents lie. I guess you don't need to have Jesus come and resurrect you to eternal life, because you think that you put on immortality prior to when that is given.
Ezekiel 32 I agree they are dead

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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#83

Post by B. W. » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:09 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote: 2 Sam 14:14 because we are dying a death and are like water, runs into the ground that no one stays, and God does not want to take away life, but consider themselves, not the outcasts that would offend him too. You must be reading some Gnostic/Plato influenced version.
No -2 Sam 14:14 from THESE VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE - KJV, NKJV, NASB, BBE, ESV, MKJV, NIV, YLT LITV, JPS, APS, ERV, CJB
1stjohn0666 wrote: I think you are buying into the serpents lie. "you shall not surely die"
No, the solid truths contained in the OT and NT regarding life after death, context, continuity, and grammar, metaphors, idioms, pictograph roots, and a decent knowledge of the original languages I studied since 1983.

But How About You? Teaching a false jesus gospel that instructs people to break the 1’st commandment?
1stjohn0666 wrote: The thief:
Verily I say unto you, today you will be with me in Paradise
Verily I say unto you today, you will be with me in Paradise


As we have translator bias and Platonic influence, people want to have the texts say what they do not. The Greek has no spacing of words nor punctuation, so depending on the translators view of life after death, there is controversy. I believe that we will surely die and don't give in to the serpents lie. I guess you don't need to have Jesus come and resurrect you to eternal life, because you think that you put on immortality prior to when that is given.
Plato teaches souls always existed and transmigrate – reincarnation – Plato is wrong and so are you regarding what we believe. You are basing your opinion upon pure presupposition. There were no commas in Greek text and again you are using standard JW, Christadelphian, The Way, talking points here.

In Greek text there are no commas used so the text reads: Absolutely I say unto you today you will be with me in Paradise

That same Paradise was spoken of by Jesus in Luke 16:19-31 too and those mentioned were very much alive after death. You don’t understand ‘reason’ or how God designed human beings.

Eccl 3:11, 14c states God placed what in our hearts? Is God eternal – and we were fashioned in that image? People have their beginnings at birth. God does not take way life, even though we die – our life continues afterwards. Been there and back myself - testify of it too.

As for the serpent’s lie, we don’t teach people it is okay to break the 1st commandment and worship a mere creature as your POV does…
1stjohn0666 wrote: Ezekiel 32 I agree they are dead
But your POV is that the dead don't exist or they are soul sleeping state of non-being or something like that, but please note:

Ezekiel 32:31 – Pharaoh saw so how could he see if did not exist?

Ezekiel 32:25 - how can they bear their own shame /disgrace if asleep in peace?

Ezekiel 32:21 NKJV - how can any be speaking and hearing if they are at restful non-being?

Job 26:5-6, How can the dead tremble… This Hebrew word means - to whirl, to shake, to fear, to dance, to writhe, to grieve, to whirl in motion - to writhe in pain – so how can they do so if the dead are slumbering in peaceful tranquil sleep?

Isa 48:22 "There is no peace for the wicked," says the LORD.” NASB
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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#84

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:52 pm

I guess you don't need a 2nd coming or a resurrection at the time specified in the bible, because Plato told you that you are immortal already. Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Tertullian all refuted the Gnostic/Platonic ideology. So what "was" Orthodox" and is now no longer, I ask ... when did that change?

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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#85

Post by B. W. » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:33 am

Here is more on Luke 23:43

Here is the Greek Text of Luke 23:43:

και ειπεν αυτω αμην σοι λεγω σημερον μετ εμου εση εν τω παραδεισω

Notice the Greek word order translated in corresponding English:

"And said to him, "Certainly to you I say today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

There are no commas used in original Greek text and the word order is clear as it defines today as this very day (just as the Greek word translated day means) that this very repentant thief would be with Jesus.

You appear not to know the basic of Greek and are merely parroting you POV privet interpretation that ignores much of the bible.
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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#86

Post by B. W. » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:43 am

1stjohn0666 wrote:I guess you don't need a 2nd coming or a resurrection at the time specified in the bible, because Plato told you that you are immortal already. Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Tertullian all refuted the Gnostic/Platonic ideology. So what "was" Orthodox" and is now no longer, I ask ... when did that change?
We here on this forum also refute Gnostics and we certainly do not teach this - you are falsely accusing us, therefore, you owe us here on this site and forum a formal apology. Be aware of the Forum Purpose and Guidelines as well.

WE would love to explain what we know as certain truth regarding this matter but you certainly appear unteachable, all wise, arrogant, and so proud, that you refuse to hear only what you want too.

These false charges have been answered on this forum in the Links provided and elsewhere. Maybe then, Matthew 7:6 applies to you?? but prove this wrong – listen, instead of falsely accuse – you just may discover that your POV will not stand up to the test of truth.

The first test was in the above post regarding Greek word order of Luke 23:43
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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#87

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:34 pm

Is this site for trinitarians only?

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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#88

Post by RickD » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:19 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:Is this site for trinitarians only?
No. But since you don't believe Jesus is God, you believe in a different jesus. A jesus who is only human, and can't actually save anyone from anything. So, you fall into the "non-Christian" category. So, keep the forum guidelines that apply to non-Christians in mind when you post.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#89

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:33 pm

What does "non-Christian" guidelines mean, do you have the rules somewhere on the site?

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Re: Where We Go When We Die?

#90

Post by RickD » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:43 pm

1stjohn0666 wrote:What does "non-Christian" guidelines mean, do you have the rules somewhere on the site?
Just what B. W. Posted above, Under where it says, "Guidelines for debating against Christian beliefs".
Here:
Forum Purpose:

Guidelines for debating against Christian beliefs

The following are some guidelines for members to follow who choose to debate against Christian beliefs:

1.Dialogue and debate with sensitivity, understanding you are participating within a Christian community.
2.Do not set out to try change the opinion of Christians as this immediately creates barriers and hostility.
3.If you receive hostility, or a caution from a moderator, be gracious enough to leave the associated discussion/s politely.
4.Do not criticise the way this board is moderated for Christians either through direct or indirect public comments.
5.If you vehemently disagree with Christian beliefs and constantly attack then know that you will be banned very quickly.
6.If these rules of engagement seem obnoxious to you, then this board probably is not for you. It is just best you leave now.

Any non-Christians who participate in discussions do so with an understanding moderators will be the judge of whether the line is crossed.

Be respectful and use good etiquette, and moderators will treat you the same without being quick to ban. That is, you can expect cautions will be issued if it is felt you are approaching the line; a warning to be issued when you have crossed the line (which may/may not involve a temporary ban); and a permanent ban if you persist.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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