previous worlds

Discussions on creation beliefs within Christianity, and topics related to creation.
abelcainsbrother
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Re: previous worlds

#46

Post by abelcainsbrother » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:30 pm

People who approach science with a conclusion before the data are of course, intellectually dishonest in the extreme. They are doing the polar opposite of science.

This is why I reject evolution they start out with a conclusion life evolves but cannot produce scientific evidence to show,prove or demonstrate but yet continue on interpreting the evidence in the earth from this perspective,it is bad science whether you believe in God or not and look at all of the money spent to prop it up.Science is going to lose its credibility in the end.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: previous worlds

#47

Post by 1over137 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:19 am

Audie, you may enjoy Rich's web article on Famous Scientists Who Believed in God
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

Audie
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Re: previous worlds

#48

Post by Audie » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:46 am

1over137 wrote:Audie, you may enjoy Rich's web article on Famous Scientists Who Believed in God
I do know that a great many scientists are religious. My own (sadly, ex) father in law for example
a geologist.

I dont know if even he could gently steer our zealous friend of the gap theory to an understanding that his perception
of science is what is at fault, not the science that he so sadly misunderstands.

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Kurieuo
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Re: previous worlds

#49

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:37 am

You know, I don't really consider myself religious.
It just what I believe.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: previous worlds

#50

Post by Audie » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:58 am

Kurieuo wrote:You know, I don't really consider myself religious.
It just what I believe.
Well, you aint a gapperite. Gaparian? :D

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Kurieuo
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Re: previous worlds

#51

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:10 pm

Audie wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:You know, I don't really consider myself religious.
It just what I believe.
Well, you aint a gapperite. Gaparian? :D
:lol: I was trying to look up that term and then realised what you meant.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: previous worlds

#52

Post by PaulSacramento » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:16 am

Kurieuo wrote:You know, I don't really consider myself religious.
It just what I believe.
I hear that a lot.
Unfortunately, here is the definition of the world "religious".

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

See, IF you have a belief about the universe, especially that it was created by God, you are religious.

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Re: previous worlds

#53

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:31 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:You know, I don't really consider myself religious.
It just what I believe.
I hear that a lot.
Unfortunately, here is the definition of the world "religious".

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

See, IF you have a belief about the universe, especially that it was created by God, you are religious.

I think there is a big difference between man's religiousness and just having belief and faith. With that definition you could argue that atheism is a religion, obviously those beliefs would change from person to person but all in all they still have beliefs about the nature of things and they have even built places to go and gather together (church).

To me being religious means to do something for the sake of doing something because that's what is done, having belief/faith however is a way of living, it is not wrapped up in ritual or moral rules and laws or tradition, I guess you could call it religious but you would mean in the most pure form of the meaning. Language is a tricky thing, some words hold meanings that just aren't always applicable, so we drop those words in favour of more suitable ones, like belief or faith.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: previous worlds

#54

Post by Audie » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:50 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Audie wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:You know, I don't really consider myself religious.
It just what I believe.
Well, you aint a gapperite. Gaparian? :D
:lol: I was trying to look up that term and then realised what you meant.
Maybe its Agappie or Agaparian or Agapist or who knows. Perhaps a victim thus afflicted could
say.

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Re: previous worlds

#55

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:36 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:You know, I don't really consider myself religious.
It just what I believe.
I hear that a lot.
Unfortunately, here is the definition of the world "religious".

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

See, IF you have a belief about the universe, especially that it was created by God, you are religious.
Yes, I know.
In fact, I use to declare I wasn't religious.
BUT, you'll notice my language was carefully constructed: "I don't really consider myself religious."

The fact is the meanings of words evolve.
Dictionaries try to capture the standard use of a word in society.
The letter in many dictionaries here I believe is behind on the modern etymology of "religion/religious" and what people mean by such.

Certainly, if you're going to define "religion" flatly as belief in God, then there's no escaping I'm "religious" as so defined.
But that is a really flatten out definition. Such that, it would today be misleading to most people who might visualise me on my knees regularly praying to God in a church, performing this or that religious rites, placing myself under the authority of some church to whom I've kind of pledged an allegiance to... you know?

For me, "religion" is man-made. Churches, rituals, systematic beliefs which if rejected you'd be shunned for and the like.
"Religious" I see means almost something other today. Has taken on a developed meaning. It is about ritual and dogmatism regardless of any "God" belief.
For example, someone with OCD might wash themselves "religiously" because they feel dirty.
There is an evolved meaning that many dictionaries may not capture in their definitions.
In fact, Buddhism is classified by many as a religion but such does not necessitate a belief in God or gods.

There are many senses used today of these words that people understand.
If I say that Dawkins is religious in his Atheistic beliefs, then many people will understand that.
Of course Dawkins would love to distance himself from this, even if the essence of what is being said is true.
So he'd hark back to a main dictionary definition that he doesn't believe in God so isn't in anyway "religious".
But this just ignores what many people today associate with these terms.

So based upon all that, regardless of what any dictionary says...
I think it would be very misleading to most people today to say that I believe in a religion or am religious.
If someone said to me that they were "religious" when all they meant was that they believe in Christ, I'd be mislead into thinking something more.
Certainly I don't consider Einstein religious because he believed in a Spinoza-like god.
Therefore it is more truthful such terms be avoided, or at least qualified when used by those using them as to what they mean.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Kurieuo
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Re: previous worlds

#56

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:57 pm

Audie wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Audie wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:You know, I don't really consider myself religious.
It just what I believe.
Well, you aint a gapperite. Gaparian? :D
:lol: I was trying to look up that term and then realised what you meant.
Maybe its Agappie or Agaparian or Agapist or who knows. Perhaps a victim thus afflicted could
say.
I like the sound of Agape -- so named after what many see God's love for us as being.
See there is evidence in God's love ("Agape") that even a "Gappist" theory in wrong. ;)
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: previous worlds

#57

Post by abelcainsbrother » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:05 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:The gap theory is a scientific theory before evolution became so popular
How was it so?
William Buckland was the very first geology professor at Oxford and he taught the gap theory there.He used the bible and geology to try to prove it true,imagine that today.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#gs_s ... m+buckland
Buckland likely spoke more freely of his passions in both science and theology.

He looked for concordism between his scientific beliefs (e.g., geology, palaeontology) and theological Christian beliefs (e.g., scriptural interpretation).

What he mentioned in classes may have not caused as much stir then as it would have today.
But, teaching science along side of personal remarks about how such fits in with Scripture... such would have just been the theologian in him and not scientist.
I'm sure he would have been clear in his own mind that the Gap Theory is not science, but rather his theological beliefs (which draws upon natural revelation also as a truth source).
I guess you forgot it was Christians who started modern day science.You seem to doubt Buckland's credentials even though he was the very first geology professor at Oxford.I just backed myself up with evidence the gap theory was a scientific theory before evolution became so popular.I didn't just make it up.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Kurieuo
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Re: previous worlds

#58

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:31 pm

Theology isn't necessarily devoid of science you know.
I suppose the proper line of discussion would be what is a "scientific theory"?

I'm sure when it comes down to it, it's all semantics here that don't matter much at all.
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Re: previous worlds

#59

Post by abelcainsbrother » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:05 pm

:?
Kurieuo wrote:Theology isn't necessarily devoid of science you know.
I suppose the proper line of discussion would be what is a "scientific theory"?

I'm sure when it comes down to it, it's all semantics here that don't matter much at all.
What matters most to me is evidence no matter what man says he believes is true.Evidence is what helps us to discover truth while a lack of evidence doesn't.I think a lot of Christians are afraid to look at it from this perspective because they think the bible cannot be proven true or it might be proven wrong one day but we already should know that nobody believes all of the bible can be proven true for it is revealed over time and we should be aware of what has already been revealed but there is nothing to be afraid of God's word will be proven true regardless of what man thinks is true or false.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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