Ham, Shem, Japheth

Discussions on creation beliefs within Christianity, and topics related to creation.
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Ham, Shem, Japheth

#1

Post by King » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:58 pm

historical people? direct sons of Noah? There are so many varieties of mankind on this Earth, I don't believe it could have come through three couples (Ham, Shem, Japheth and their respective wives). I do believe we all have one origin, I do not believe in "multi-regional" theories on mankind's origins. If anyone has some advice on this matter, please let me know!

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#2

Post by Jac3510 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:20 pm

King wrote:historical people? direct sons of Noah?
Yes and yes.
There are so many varieties of mankind on this Earth, I don't believe it could have come through three couples (Ham, Shem, Japheth and their respective wives).
Yes, and I'm sure you can quote scientists and link to pages that say the same. And then I could quote scientists and link to pages that counter the claim. Now, perhaps you have taken the time to study biochemistry, genetics, statistical analysis, and related subjects and can walk through each argument's strengths, weaknesses, identify their basic assumptions and underlying theories, etc. If so, then perhaps someone here can discuss with you on that level. But given the relatively few number of people who have done those studies, I am willing to bet that you "don't believe it could have come through three couples" because you've been told as much. In other words, that's something I'm willing to bet you are taking on faith.

I'm not saying that makes you wrong, of course. But it does go to any advice you might be willing to receive . . .
I do believe we all have one origin, I do not believe in "multi-regional" theories on mankind's origins. If anyone has some advice on this matter, please let me know!
You'll need to decide who you are willing to believe.

There are some Christians who think that Noah's flood happened many tens of thousands of years ago. There are some who believe that it did not actually kill all people. There are some who think it was just a fictional story all the way around. There are others who think the flood happened a relatively short time ago and that the genetic diversity we see in people is explainable. What I don't think you can do is start with the scientific question of genetic diversity and then read your answer to that back into the text of Scripture. You would do better to read the text itself and ask what it teaches, and then ask how what it teaches compares to how various people are interpreting the scientific data, and then finally ask who you believe (if you aren't capable of doing your own independent analysis).
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#3

Post by neo-x » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:16 pm

I don't like these kind of debates anymore...so I will just say this research the facts yourself, science and scripture. As for me as far as science is concerned, if you look at genetics it is impossible to get the kind of diversity we have from 3 males, or even 3 couples. We have genetic markers which belong to more than 3 males or 3 couples.
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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#4

Post by King » Tue May 20, 2014 3:11 pm

OK, so we know now that Adam and Eve had sons and daughters who were not mentioned, at it was one of those unnamed daughters who was Cain's wife. Is it possible that Noah's three sons and their wives had male and female descendents who were not mentioned in Genesis? When I look at the Table of Nations, it seems to me that Moses only mentions the parts of the world that were relevant to the people he was speaking too; Nations that the Hebrews at that time would have had dealings with or would have known of. What is everybody's thoughts on this?

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#5

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Tue May 20, 2014 4:53 pm

King wrote:If anyone has some advice on this matter, please let me know!
I suggest you take a pen and cross out all passages of the Bible you find beyond belief or lacking credibility. Start at Genesis 1 and work your way to Revelation 22, right to the very end.
The more ink you put down, the more wise you are to the ways of the world.

Go ahead! It will be an excellent way to get to know yourself.

FL :D
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#6

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Tue May 20, 2014 5:10 pm

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
King wrote:If anyone has some advice on this matter, please let me know!
I suggest you take a pen and cross out all passages of the Bible you find beyond belief or lacking credibility. Start at Genesis 1 and work your way to Revelation 22, right to the very end.
The more ink you put down, the more wise you are to the ways of the world.

Go ahead! It will be an excellent way to get to know yourself.

FL :D

Don't listen to FL, I bet he doesn't take all of the Bible literally. :roll: :shakehead:
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#7

Post by King » Tue May 20, 2014 5:25 pm

"Adam and Eve had sons and daughters who were not mentioned, at it was one of those unnamed daughters who was Cain's wife. Is it possible that Noah's three sons and their wives had male and female descendents who were not mentioned in Genesis? When I look at the Table of Nations, it seems to me that Moses only mentions the parts of the world that were relevant to the people he was speaking too; Nations that the Hebrews at that time would have had dealings with or would have known of". That's what I believe. I now know I don't need anyone to validate it except God Himself. And I will pray and study. Furstentum Liechtenstein, we are both in our thirties so "cyber-bullying" is not our thing. God Bless.

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#8

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Tue May 20, 2014 5:49 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Don't listen to FL, I bet he doesn't take all of the Bible literally. :roll: :shakehead:
You would do well to do the same exercise I suggested to King.
King wrote:Furstentum Liechtenstein, we are both in our thirties so "cyber-bullying" is not our thing. God Bless.
What ''cyber-bullying''? are you a delicate flower?! Grow some cojones, man!

If you do the exercise I suggested (but I know you won't) I bet you'd be surprised at how little of the Bible you find credible.

FL :D
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#9

Post by RickD » Tue May 20, 2014 6:09 pm

King wrote:
Furstentum Liechtenstein, we are both in our thirties so "cyber-bullying" is not our thing. God Bless.
FL in his thirties? :pound:

I'm afraid FL wasn't in his thirties since Shem, Ham, and Japeth were a twinkle in Noah's eye.
:wheelchair:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#10

Post by King » Tue May 20, 2014 6:16 pm

HEY NOW! Maricone Diablo Blanco talking about my cojones?!! step off, son. And get your lily ass off of Africa. Go back to your Sweden and worship your pagan idols.

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#11

Post by King » Tue May 20, 2014 6:20 pm

Thanks, Rick D. I apologize if my strong language toward FL offended you. I just needed for him to know I'm not as dumb as he looks!

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#12

Post by RickD » Tue May 20, 2014 6:25 pm

King wrote:HEY NOW! Maricone Diablo Blanco talking about my cojones?!! step off, son. And get your lily *** off of Africa. Go back to your Sweden and worship your pagan idols.
King,

FL isn't a gay white devil. And *** is not allowed on this forum.

FL is Canadian. That's more of an insult than anything else you can say.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#13

Post by King » Tue May 20, 2014 6:38 pm

lol. Thanks, Rick!

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#14

Post by King » Tue May 20, 2014 7:07 pm

Rick D, I might be wrong about Noah's descendents having unnamed sons and daughters. Point me in a direction where I can better understand how the entire globe was populated.

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Re: Ham, Shem, Japheth

#15

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Tue May 20, 2014 7:09 pm

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
You would do well to do the same exercise I suggested to King.
Or I could just borrow your Bible, but I don't know if a children's Bible would hold me captive for very long.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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