Doublethink

Discussions on creation beliefs within Christianity, and topics related to creation.
PaulSacramento
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Re: Doublethink

#46

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:52 pm

I tend to agree that there was a historical Adam and Eve.
I also tend to agree they were the first humans and I think that they may even have been fully created by God in the garden of Eden.
I just don't think they were the only ones on the planet at the time of their expulsion.

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RickD
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Re: Doublethink

#47

Post by RickD » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:01 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:I tend to agree that there was a historical Adam and Eve.
I also tend to agree they were the first humans and I think that they may even have been fully created by God in the garden of Eden.
I just don't think they were the only ones on the planet at the time of their expulsion.
That's more inline with what I've read that TEs believe. But, I just wanted to point out something you wrote:
I think that they may even have been fully created by God in the garden of Eden.
The bible says Adam was created outside the garden, then God placed him in the garden.

Genesis 2:7-8
7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life ; and man became a living being. 8 The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden ; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.

So, we have God forming man(Adam) from the dust of the ground, then God placed the man in the garden. I'm not sure if it makes a whole lot of difference to what you said, but I think this verse throws a monkey wrench into the belief by some TEs, that Adam was a hominid that God gave a spirit to, which then made him human. This verse seems to show that God specially created Adam.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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PaulSacramento
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Re: Doublethink

#48

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:17 pm

RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:I tend to agree that there was a historical Adam and Eve.
I also tend to agree they were the first humans and I think that they may even have been fully created by God in the garden of Eden.
I just don't think they were the only ones on the planet at the time of their expulsion.
That's more inline with what I've read that TEs believe. But, I just wanted to point out something you wrote:
I think that they may even have been fully created by God in the garden of Eden.
The bible says Adam was created outside the garden, then God placed him in the garden.

Genesis 2:7-8
7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life ; and man became a living being. 8 The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden ; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.

So, we have God forming man(Adam) from the dust of the ground, then God placed the man in the garden. I'm not sure if it makes a whole lot of difference to what you said, but I think this verse throws a monkey wrench into the belief by some TEs, that Adam was a hominid that God gave a spirit to, which then made him human. This verse seems to show that God specially created Adam.

Good catch.
Yes, that is correct.
I think when I edited my post some stuff got chopped that I didn't notice.
I also had written that it may have been that God created Man and then put Him in the garden as the first "sentient" being and that God created Eve from Adam to start a new "species", one that when it started to roam outside the Garden was the dominate species and overwhelmed and cross bred with other "humans".
Or not.
I am just throwing out possibilities.

IMO, Adam (and Eve) were real people and perhaps even the first fully human ones ( there had to be a first couple) and they were blessed by God and given Eden until they screwed up.
Now, the issues is that Eve was made from Adam in the Garden and this means that either that was what happened or that part may be poetic licence.
I think that it could be the case that it really did happen, God did create Eve from Adam and that made them unique from all other mammals of that time IN Eden.
It may be that Adam and Eve were a unique couple, with unique genetic makeup ( at least Eve may have been) and that they started a branch of humanity...

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Re: Doublethink

#49

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:20 pm

theophilus wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote: The Bible does not say there was no death before the fall, that is just your interpretation.
Here is what the Bible says.
Sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned
(Romans 5:12 ESV)
How can this be interpreted to mean anything else except that there was no death before the fall?
Spiritual death not physical, like I said it is your interpretation. If you want to take that passage and apply your method of interpretation it would only apply to people and not animals or plants. :roll:
I wasn't talking about the age of the earth but how long it took to create it. Six days.
This is your interpretation of the word Yom(e), Yom(e) can mean other things like an age. So no the Bible actually does not say how long it took, only your interpretation does that.
When you form your own creation perspective rather than believing what God has told us in the Bible you are accusing God of lying.
No my opinion is based on what the Bible says, here again you have lied about my position, you have made accusations against me that are false. You profess to be a Christian but your actions betray you, stop worshiping your creation perspective and get more Jesus into your heart. You have elevated you interpretation of scripture above scripture itself. The Bible does not say exactly how the creation process worked, mainly because it is not important. What is important is why, maybe you should have a long hard think about that before you insult people and make false accusations.
Last edited by Danieltwotwenty on Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Doublethink

#50

Post by RickD » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:35 pm

PaulS wrote:
and that they started a branch of humanity...
Ok. So I guess it would follow that there were other branches of humanity? If Adam was the first of a specific 'branch', and there were other branches that didn't come genetically from Adam and Eve, were these other humans sinners? Would there be any descendants of these other humans, alive today? And if yes, are they not sinners because they don't come from Adam's lineage? Do you see where this is leading?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Philip
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Re: Doublethink

#51

Post by Philip » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:46 pm

I'm convinced our political class descended from apes - but not very far. y:(|) :yoyo:

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RickD
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Re: Doublethink

#52

Post by RickD » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:46 pm

Philip wrote:I'm convinced our political class descended from apes - but not very far. y:(|) :yoyo:
Only the tea party. :esurprised:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Philip
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Re: Doublethink

#53

Post by Philip » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:31 pm

Philip wrote:I'm convinced our political class descended from apes - but not very far. y:(|) :yoyo:

Only the tea party. :esurprised:
If only it were that simple.

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Re: Doublethink

#54

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:09 am

RickD wrote:
PaulS wrote:
and that they started a branch of humanity...
Ok. So I guess it would follow that there were other branches of humanity? If Adam was the first of a specific 'branch', and there were other branches that didn't come genetically from Adam and Eve, were these other humans sinners? Would there be any descendants of these other humans, alive today? And if yes, are they not sinners because they don't come from Adam's lineage? Do you see where this is leading?
Oh Yes I see that and the issue there and, again, there are many ways one can TRY and reconcile what science tells us and what we read in Genesis.
What I wrote is simply ONE way but, to be honest, I think that there is NO way that doesn't have SOME issues.

IMO, however, I do believe that the story of Cain and Abel and Cain leaving, seems to imply that there were others living around there besides Adam and Eve's immediate family.

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