Why is young earth so important?

Discussions on creation beliefs within Christianity, and topics related to creation.
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RickD
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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#121

Post by RickD » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:02 pm

Philip wrote:Speaking of whiskey: I have a bottle of Jack Daniels in my pantry that is nearly full and was given me as a leftover after a corporate function, nearly 10 years ago. Would it be any good after so long?

Talk about a :shijacked: ...
Why am a getting a feeling of déjà vu?
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... ey#p149905
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#122

Post by Philip » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:03 am

Well, thanks, Rick, for pointing out my senior moment - can't believe you remembered it, much less tracked it down. But, then again, you clown aliens have superior abilities. But why is it that when I do a search for a post topic that should be easy to find it's often unfindable. But you can find an obscure question about an old bottle of booze? Or do you just spend a lot of time thinking about booze? y:-?

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#123

Post by FlawedIntellect » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:15 am

Philip wrote:Well, thanks, Rick, for pointing out my senior moment - can't believe you remembered it, much less tracked it down. But, then again, you clown aliens have superior abilities. But why is it that when I do a search for a post topic that should be easy to find it's often unfindable. But you can find an obscure question about an old bottle of booze? Or do you just spend a lot of time thinking about booze? y:-?
Maybe Rick just never forgets a "joke" he's made? His joke to you was at the very bottom of that page.

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#124

Post by RickD » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:35 am

I'm a trained CIA operative. It's what I do. :coolcall:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#125

Post by Byblos » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:59 am

RickD wrote:I'm a trained CIA operative. It's what I do. :coolcall:
CIA = Clown Inebriation Adjustment. :mrgreen:
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#126

Post by Audie » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:20 am

The answer to the forgotten OP is, some people will believe whatever it takes.. see hydrolplate "theory" :D...to back up their beliefs.

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#127

Post by RickD » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:27 am

Byblos wrote:
RickD wrote:I'm a trained CIA operative. It's what I do. :coolcall:
CIA = Clown Inebriation Adjustment. :mrgreen:
No. Central Intelligence Agency. And I know where you live. :yes:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#128

Post by Audie » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:01 am

RickD wrote:
Byblos wrote:
RickD wrote:I'm a trained CIA operative. It's what I do. :coolcall:
CIA = Clown Inebriation Adjustment. :mrgreen:
No. Central Intelligence Agency. And I know where you live. :yes:
This CIA?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5FO9-3nXvg

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#129

Post by Philip » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:53 pm

RickD wrote:I'm a trained CIA operative. It's what I do. :coolcall:

CIA = Clown Inebriation Adjustment. :mrgreen:
So the clown has a hollow leg, likes to toss back a few. Hopefully he doesn't smoke, too - bad combination - especially when done at the very same time!

Image

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#130

Post by FlawedIntellect » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:51 pm

Philip wrote:
RickD wrote:I'm a trained CIA operative. It's what I do. :coolcall:

CIA = Clown Inebriation Adjustment. :mrgreen:
So the clown has a hollow leg, likes to toss back a few. Hopefully he doesn't smoke, too - bad combination - especially when done at the very same time!

Image
That gif should be an emoticon. XD

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#131

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:57 pm

Audie wrote:The answer to the forgotten OP is, some people will believe whatever it takes.. see hydrolplate "theory" :D...to back up their beliefs.
Hydrolplate? Is that some Asian whisky?* Japan produces some excellent whiskies modelled after scotch but most whiskies made in countries other than Scotland, Ireland, Canada and the USA are just junk.

I am the resident whisky expert. RickD knows nothin', nada, didlysquat. I am the Jac3510 of whisky...'nuff said.

FL :cheers:

*also spelled whiskey
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#132

Post by Audie » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:15 pm

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
Audie wrote:The answer to the forgotten OP is, some people will believe whatever it takes.. see hydrolplate "theory" :D...to back up their beliefs.
Hydrolplate? Is that some Asian whisky?* Japan produces some excellent whiskies modelled after scotch but most whiskies made in countries other than Scotland, Ireland, Canada and the USA are just junk.

I am the resident whisky expert. RickD knows nothin', nada, didlysquat. I am the Jac3510 of whisky...'nuff said.

FL :cheers:

*also spelled whiskey
"Hyrlolplate" then. You are cool, rick was decent to me but this sure is not the forum
to make a person like me feel welcome.

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#133

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:00 pm

Audie wrote:"Hyrlolplate" then.
I think you mean Hydroplate Theory.
Audie wrote: You are cool, rick was decent to me but this sure is not the forumto make a person like me feel welcome.
Actually, I am the nastiest person here...for some reason, that seems to be my very undeserved reputation. RickD is OK; he's a little straight-laced and somewhat politically correct. I'm surprised you didn't get along with Jac. I think you overreacted to his style. Jac is a milder and more intelligent version of me. Give him another chance.

FL :D
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#134

Post by Jac3510 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:13 pm

Jac is a milder and more intelligent version of me. Give him another chance.
Image
Image
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Why is young earth so important?

#135

Post by Mazzy » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:25 pm

Jac3510 wrote:
tetelesti wrote:Saw this video on WND about "why a young earth" is foundational to the Christian faith. Found the whole premise irritating because I thought that Christ crucified was the foundation of the Christian faith, not whether the earth was young or old. This video seems to imply that any view outside young earth creationism is heretical, which seems to echo the underpinnings of Ken Ham. Apparently it's worse than that since the author of the video, David Rives, sells Kent Hovind's "creation seminar" DVD on his website.
You're using the term "foundational" differently than they are. You are thinking of the basic essence of the faith in the sense of that which is denied is to go on to deny the faith itself. They are using the term in the sense of the most basic support. There are OECs on this board who have (rightly) argued that if Adam and Eve never existed, then the faith is, in this sense, undermined, because there is no historical basis for the Fall. It is this sense of "foundational" that has led the Catholic Church to affirm that, whatever one believes about the age of the earth or evolution, one must believe that Adam and Eve were historical figures, the pair from whom all people today descended.

So on their view, YEC is foundational in that sense because OEC requires death was in the world before sin. The normal OEC response is that the death that came from the Fall is spiritual death. The real difference, then, in YEC and OEC is not soteriological (pertaining to salvation) but eschatological (pertaining to the end times, kingdom, etc.).

By the way, this is the final reason that I was persuaded that YEC is the biblical view. OEC advocates are simply wrong when they think that the death introduced into the world by sin was human death and/or spiritual death.
An interesting part of the video is were David Rives states that "most Hebrew scholars agree the wording indicates a literal 24 hour day." Wasn't it Sir Isaac Newton, in the 17th century, who was the first to translate Genesis in the original Hebrew text, giving us a greater understanding of the word "day"? Prior to that didn't scholars and the patriarchs only translate the Greek text (Septuagint), thus leaving us with a translation of a translation? The remaining claims stated in the video seem rather baseless, if even worthy of debate.

"For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified"

http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/why-is-young ... important/
No, Newton was not the first person to translate or work from the Hebrew scriptures. I have no idea where you even got such an idea. To take only one example, Jerome worked from the Hebrew OT (much to the chagrin of some Catholic scholars). Beyond that, the LXX vs. MT has no bearing on this discussion, anyway. The Hebrew word is yom. The Greek word is hemera. Those two words are as synonymous as any two words can be in any language. To try to suggest that yom can mean a long period of time and that hermera . . . well, that's just incorrect. In fact, one of the interesting things that LXX scholars will point out is that the LXX is a VERY "wooden" translation of the Torah, but that is not at all the case in later parts of the OT. And that's something I can also attest to, having read significant portions of both the Hebrew OT and the LXX.

Beyond all that, though, the argument they are making is just silly. It doesn't really matter what the majority of Hebrew scholars believe, even if they could prove their claims. What matters is what can be shown, and if the majority are wrong, then they are just wrong. The only question we should be dealing with is what does yom mean in Genesis 1. I am convinced, after looking at every single occurrence of yom in the Torah and Joshua (604 occurrences, each classified individually in its various state: construct, absolute, with prepositions and without, (an)arthrous, etc.), that there is absolutely no doubt based on the way the word is used (from a strictly linguistic perspective) that Moses intended the word to mean a normal, 24 hour day, and any assertion to the contrary is completely baseless, absurd, and ignores the textual evidence as we have it.

But that's just me. :)
Getting back to the OP and although I have not read every post on this thread, the above is a good post even though I disagree with some of what you said. I don't think the earth has to be young. I think Mankind may need to be young. I have also read about the geneology in Genesis being incorrect meaning mankind may have been created longer than 6K years ago.

The bible has been copied and I believe it may reflect the ideology of the transcriber. Adam could mean a group of people. It is all about having a capital A or not. Theistic evolutionists may believe this explanation.

This is a site I was looking at the other day.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed ... d-eve-rjs/

The reason I was looking at this site is I had a real "DER" moment about a year ago. I used to believe that Genesis was written by Moses, being a first hand account of the creation stories passed down to him as well a recollection about the flood. Then I started to study the scriptures and realized that Genesis speaks to Moses death. Many scholars suggest Genesis is a compilation of scrolls.

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