Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#61

Post by PaulSacramento » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:57 am

abelcainsbrother wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Can you tell me, in your own words, what is evolution?
Evolution is supposed to be change over time however the evidence does not back this up from my research on it.Is variation in reproduction evolution? Reproduction?Is life adapting life evolving?Because when I look at the evidence I expect to see evidence life evolves and yet in every case it is just reproduction or adaptation.Now I do not deny that life reproduces or that life can adapt as we can actually see and observe this but I want to see evidence life evolves.
Whenever there is a change and that change is adapted and used for survival, that is evolution.
In a nutshell:
Using the example of cosmic radiation ( and there is a reason I use it as an example)-
Radiation causes a mutation in the gene that makes the fur on Fox group (A) become thicker.
That mutation allows the members in that group to migrate to colder climates (looking for food or whatnot) from group (B).
Over generations group (A) breeds and that mutation is passed on via natural selection because it is a beneficial one.
Many centuries go by, millenniums even, and as Group (A) and (B) continue to go through various changes and adaptations, they get to a point that group (A) can no longer breed successfully with (B).
They are no a new/different species.
Evolution of group (A) from group (B) has occurred.

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#62

Post by TheQuestor » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:03 pm

neo-x wrote:Hi, can any one suggest a good beginners book to understand the evolutionary theory?

I would appreciate a book which does not delve into, why ID or creationism is wrong, I don't want any philosophical takes on it. I would like a book which a student would be reading.
The absolute best book for this, is not a book at all. See any book, will typically hold only one very narrow point of view. If you really want to learn, explore the internet, it's all here and there, the trouble is that there is actually too much, but any book you read is shallow next to the net.

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#63

Post by TheQuestor » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:05 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Can you tell me, in your own words, what is evolution?
Evolution is supposed to be change over time however the evidence does not back this up from my research on it.Is variation in reproduction evolution? Reproduction?Is life adapting life evolving?Because when I look at the evidence I expect to see evidence life evolves and yet in every case it is just reproduction or adaptation.Now I do not deny that life reproduces or that life can adapt as we can actually see and observe this but I want to see evidence life evolves.
Whenever there is a change and that change is adapted and used for survival, that is evolution.
In a nutshell:
Using the example of cosmic radiation ( and there is a reason I use it as an example)-
Radiation causes a mutation in the gene that makes the fur on Fox group (A) become thicker.
That mutation allows the members in that group to migrate to colder climates (looking for food or whatnot) from group (B).
Over generations group (A) breeds and that mutation is passed on via natural selection because it is a beneficial one.
Many centuries go by, millenniums even, and as Group (A) and (B) continue to go through various changes and adaptations, they get to a point that group (A) can no longer breed successfully with (B).
They are no a new/different species.
Evolution of group (A) from group (B) has occurred.
All life is dependent on the Suns rays, your body makes vitamin D from cosmic rays. Thus cosmic rays (sunshine) do not cause mutations.

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#64

Post by 1over137 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:25 pm

The UV light from sun can cause gene mutation. See e.g. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/ ... hers-.html
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
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#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#65

Post by TheQuestor » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:55 pm

1over137 wrote:The UV light from sun can cause gene mutation. See e.g. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/ ... hers-.html
Then these gene mutations are a normal thing, as the Sun has always been there.

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#66

Post by abelcainsbrother » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:39 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Can you tell me, in your own words, what is evolution?
Evolution is supposed to be change over time however the evidence does not back this up from my research on it.Is variation in reproduction evolution? Reproduction?Is life adapting life evolving?Because when I look at the evidence I expect to see evidence life evolves and yet in every case it is just reproduction or adaptation.Now I do not deny that life reproduces or that life can adapt as we can actually see and observe this but I want to see evidence life evolves.
Whenever there is a change and that change is adapted and used for survival, that is evolution.
In a nutshell:
Using the example of cosmic radiation ( and there is a reason I use it as an example)-
Radiation causes a mutation in the gene that makes the fur on Fox group (A) become thicker.
That mutation allows the members in that group to migrate to colder climates (looking for food or whatnot) from group (B).
Over generations group (A) breeds and that mutation is passed on via natural selection because it is a beneficial one.
Many centuries go by, millenniums even, and as Group (A) and (B) continue to go through various changes and adaptations, they get to a point that group (A) can no longer breed successfully with (B).
They are no a new/different species.
Evolution of group (A) from group (B) has occurred.
Life adapting is not life evolving for there are many examples of life that has adapted and yet remains the same kind of life.Look at Eskimo's these are human who adapted to live in the extreme cold and yet natural selection is non existent and they are still humans and we see the same thing in the evidence for evolution even when it is able to adapt it remains the same and never changes into another kind of life.

There is all kinds of examples of life that is said to have evolved and can still breed and so you cannot say that life has evolved when it cannot breed any longer talk origins will tell you this.In order to show live evolves it must be demonstrated and it has not been demonstrated and there is no reason to believe man tell you live evolves and you believe it by faith. All of the evidence that has been discovered by man has been looked at all wrong because of man believing life evolves but the evidence proves that a former world full of life was on this earth before God created this world with life on it.

As Christians we cannot just reject evolution like all of the other creation theories do,this isvwhy the Gap theory is evolution's worst nightmare because we can reject evolution and then teach and explain from both the bible and science what the evidence in the earth really proves and not evolution.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#67

Post by TheQuestor » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:56 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Can you tell me, in your own words, what is evolution?
Evolution is supposed to be change over time however the evidence does not back this up from my research on it.Is variation in reproduction evolution? Reproduction?Is life adapting life evolving?Because when I look at the evidence I expect to see evidence life evolves and yet in every case it is just reproduction or adaptation.Now I do not deny that life reproduces or that life can adapt as we can actually see and observe this but I want to see evidence life evolves.
Whenever there is a change and that change is adapted and used for survival, that is evolution.
In a nutshell:
Using the example of cosmic radiation ( and there is a reason I use it as an example)-
Radiation causes a mutation in the gene that makes the fur on Fox group (A) become thicker.
That mutation allows the members in that group to migrate to colder climates (looking for food or whatnot) from group (B).
Over generations group (A) breeds and that mutation is passed on via natural selection because it is a beneficial one.
Many centuries go by, millenniums even, and as Group (A) and (B) continue to go through various changes and adaptations, they get to a point that group (A) can no longer breed successfully with (B).
They are no a new/different species.
Evolution of group (A) from group (B) has occurred.
Life adapting is not life evolving for there are many examples of life that has adapted and yet remains the same kind of life.Look at Eskimo's these are human who adapted to live in the extreme cold and yet natural selection is non existent and they are still humans and we see the same thing in the evidence for evolution even when it is able to adapt it remains the same and never changes into another kind of life.

There is all kinds of examples of life that is said to have evolved and can still breed and so you cannot say that life has evolved when it cannot breed any longer talk origins will tell you this.In order to show live evolves it must be demonstrated and it has not been demonstrated and there is no reason to believe man tell you live evolves and you believe it by faith. All of the evidence that has been discovered by man has been looked at all wrong because of man believing life evolves but the evidence proves that a former world full of life was on this earth before God created this world with life on it.

As Christians we cannot just reject evolution like all of the other creation theories do,this isvwhy the Gap theory is evolution's worst nightmare because we can reject evolution and then teach and explain from both the bible and science what the evidence in the earth really proves and not evolution.
Evolution, does not in itself, mean the creation of a new species. Clearly all dogs are selectively evolved from the wolf, yet they can still interbreed. Christian certainly can accept evolution, as evolution is a part of everything that we are, what evolution can not do, is explain how life that evolves came to be. The Pope is certainly a Christian, and yet he believes in evolution.....

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#68

Post by abelcainsbrother » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:36 pm

TheQuestor wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Can you tell me, in your own words, what is evolution?
Evolution is supposed to be change over time however the evidence does not back this up from my research on it.Is variation in reproduction evolution? Reproduction?Is life adapting life evolving?Because when I look at the evidence I expect to see evidence life evolves and yet in every case it is just reproduction or adaptation.Now I do not deny that life reproduces or that life can adapt as we can actually see and observe this but I want to see evidence life evolves.
Whenever there is a change and that change is adapted and used for survival, that is evolution.
In a nutshell:
Using the example of cosmic radiation ( and there is a reason I use it as an example)-
Radiation causes a mutation in the gene that makes the fur on Fox group (A) become thicker.
That mutation allows the members in that group to migrate to colder climates (looking for food or whatnot) from group (B).
Over generations group (A) breeds and that mutation is passed on via natural selection because it is a beneficial one.
Many centuries go by, millenniums even, and as Group (A) and (B) continue to go through various changes and adaptations, they get to a point that group (A) can no longer breed successfully with (B).
They are no a new/different species.
Evolution of group (A) from group (B) has occurred.
Life adapting is not life evolving for there are many examples of life that has adapted and yet remains the same kind of life.Look at Eskimo's these are human who adapted to live in the extreme cold and yet natural selection is non existent and they are still humans and we see the same thing in the evidence for evolution even when it is able to adapt it remains the same and never changes into another kind of life.

There is all kinds of examples of life that is said to have evolved and can still breed and so you cannot say that life has evolved when it cannot breed any longer talk origins will tell you this.In order to show live evolves it must be demonstrated and it has not been demonstrated and there is no reason to believe man tell you live evolves and you believe it by faith. All of the evidence that has been discovered by man has been looked at all wrong because of man believing life evolves but the evidence proves that a former world full of life was on this earth before God created this world with life on it.

As Christians we cannot just reject evolution like all of the other creation theories do,this isvwhy the Gap theory is evolution's worst nightmare because we can reject evolution and then teach and explain from both the bible and science what the evidence in the earth really proves and not evolution.
Evolution, does not in itself, mean the creation of a new species. Clearly all dogs are selectively evolved from the wolf, yet they can still interbreed. Christian certainly can accept evolution, as evolution is a part of everything that we are, what evolution can not do, is explain how life that evolves came to be. The Pope is certainly a Christian, and yet he believes in evolution.....
Animal breeders were aware of variations of reproduction long before Charles Darwin.It is bad when those who accept evolution have to deny things it teaches in order to defend it but you just denied dinosaurs could evolve to be birds.It has never been demonstrated life evolves and according to the bible it cannot evolve because it would violate that God created life to produce after its kind.Look it is not easy to admit we have been wrong.You believe life evolves by faith because of what man says is true and yet man has been wrong many times whether he is a believer in the God's word or not and the evidence in the earth has been looked at all wrong for 150 years.I respect whoever the Pope is but they can be wrong sometimes.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#69

Post by TheQuestor » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:59 pm

Animal breeders were aware of variations of reproduction long before Charles Darwin.It is bad when those who accept evolution have to deny things it teaches in order to defend it but you just denied dinosaurs could evolve to be birds.It has never been demonstrated life evolves and according to the bible it cannot evolve because it would violate that God created life to produce after its kind.Look it is not easy to admit we have been wrong.You believe life evolves by faith because of what man says is true and yet man has been wrong many times whether he is a believer in the God's word or not and the evidence in the earth has been looked at all wrong for 150 years.I respect whoever the Pope is but they can be wrong sometimes.[
Well, I can not speak for all Christian religions, but I am Catholic, and was taught evolution in the fifth grade, by a nun. I almost ask her to explain how she could teach us that, because I was aware of the controversy. So Catholics have no conflict with evolution, as the Pope has now confirmed. http://www.iflscience.com/brain/pope-en ... nt-origins

Pope Francis has reiterated that the Catholic Church sees no conflict between science and religion, accepting the universe was created in the Big Bang, rather than insisting on a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis.

The position is not new. More conservative Popes have, in recent decades, endorsed scientific ideas that are anathema to fundamentalist Christians, particularly that humans descended from other species. However, since the first acknowledgment of this possibility the Church's position has, shall we say, evolved significantly.

Evolution happens, there is however no evidence, that one creature can evolve into another, none, even though this may well be the case.

What exactly do you believe?

And, whatever that is, Merry Christmas....................!

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#70

Post by abelcainsbrother » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:04 pm

TheQuestor wrote:
Animal breeders were aware of variations of reproduction long before Charles Darwin.It is bad when those who accept evolution have to deny things it teaches in order to defend it but you just denied dinosaurs could evolve to be birds.It has never been demonstrated life evolves and according to the bible it cannot evolve because it would violate that God created life to produce after its kind.Look it is not easy to admit we have been wrong.You believe life evolves by faith because of what man says is true and yet man has been wrong many times whether he is a believer in the God's word or not and the evidence in the earth has been looked at all wrong for 150 years.I respect whoever the Pope is but they can be wrong sometimes.[
Well, I can not speak for all Christian religions, but I am Catholic, and was taught evolution in the fifth grade, by a nun. I almost ask her to explain how she could teach us that, because I was aware of the controversy. So Catholics have no conflict with evolution, as the Pope has now confirmed. http://www.iflscience.com/brain/pope-en ... nt-origins

Pope Francis has reiterated that the Catholic Church sees no conflict between science and religion, accepting the universe was created in the Big Bang, rather than insisting on a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis.

The position is not new. More conservative Popes have, in recent decades, endorsed scientific ideas that are anathema to fundamentalist Christians, particularly that humans descended from other species. However, since the first acknowledgment of this possibility the Church's position has, shall we say, evolved significantly.

Evolution happens, there is however no evidence, that one creature can evolve into another, none, even though this may well be the case.

What exactly do you believe?

And, whatever that is, Merry Christmas....................!
I actually took the time to look through the evidence for evolution.I realized that there were Christians who accepted evolution and Christians who rejected evolution and so I wanted to find out the truth for myself based on the evidence for evolution,this can be very tricky because there is so much evidence for evolution for evolution but based on the evidence for evolution I see no reason to believe in it by faith because it is secular man-made science as a christian I already have the bible to believe by faith.

So based on the evidence I would reject evolution even if I was not a Christian based on a lack of evidence but now that I understand the biblical Gap theory I believe it is true and not evolution.The bible reveals to us that there was a former world on this earth full of life until Lucifer and a third of the angels rebelled against God and the former world perished and all life that lived in it died for a period of time until God created this world on the same earth in Genesis 1.As I see God restoring things all throughout the bible read psalms 23 but even we are being restored through salvation in Jesus and so it is not at all hard to believe God restored the earth and the evidence in this earth from fossils,coal and oil,plus ancient mysterious cities around this earth has been looked at and views from an evolution perspective instead of a former world that perished perspective that God's word teaches us if we study about the history of angels and Lucifer plus other places like Jeremiah 4:23-28. The evidence of a very old heavens and earth and the evidence in this earth testifies to a former world existing full of life,not evolution.

Even though I'm not a catholic I do not like all of the division and bickering between Protestants and Catholics as I find doctrines of men in every denomination and we should forgive any past wrongs done I think Christians need to unite in these last days with atheism on the rise and everything else and I have always respected whoever the pope is and I really liked Pope John Paul the 2nd.Merry Christmas to you.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#71

Post by TheQuestor » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:05 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
TheQuestor wrote:
Animal breeders were aware of variations of reproduction long before Charles Darwin.It is bad when those who accept evolution have to deny things it teaches in order to defend it but you just denied dinosaurs could evolve to be birds.It has never been demonstrated life evolves and according to the bible it cannot evolve because it would violate that God created life to produce after its kind.Look it is not easy to admit we have been wrong.You believe life evolves by faith because of what man says is true and yet man has been wrong many times whether he is a believer in the God's word or not and the evidence in the earth has been looked at all wrong for 150 years.I respect whoever the Pope is but they can be wrong sometimes.[
Well, I can not speak for all Christian religions, but I am Catholic, and was taught evolution in the fifth grade, by a nun. I almost ask her to explain how she could teach us that, because I was aware of the controversy. So Catholics have no conflict with evolution, as the Pope has now confirmed. http://www.iflscience.com/brain/pope-en ... nt-origins

Pope Francis has reiterated that the Catholic Church sees no conflict between science and religion, accepting the universe was created in the Big Bang, rather than insisting on a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis.

The position is not new. More conservative Popes have, in recent decades, endorsed scientific ideas that are anathema to fundamentalist Christians, particularly that humans descended from other species. However, since the first acknowledgment of this possibility the Church's position has, shall we say, evolved significantly.

Evolution happens, there is however no evidence, that one creature can evolve into another, none, even though this may well be the case.

What exactly do you believe?

And, whatever that is, Merry Christmas....................!
I actually took the time to look through the evidence for evolution.I realized that there were Christians who accepted evolution and Christians who rejected evolution and so I wanted to find out the truth for myself based on the evidence for evolution,this can be very tricky because there is so much evidence for evolution for evolution but based on the evidence for evolution I see no reason to believe in it by faith because it is secular man-made science as a christian I already have the bible to believe by faith.

So based on the evidence I would reject evolution even if I was not a Christian based on a lack of evidence but now that I understand the biblical Gap theory I believe it is true and not evolution.The bible reveals to us that there was a former world on this earth full of life until Lucifer and a third of the angels rebelled against God and the former world perished and all life that lived in it died for a period of time until God created this world on the same earth in Genesis 1.As I see God restoring things all throughout the bible read psalms 23 but even we are being restored through salvation in Jesus and so it is not at all hard to believe God restored the earth and the evidence in this earth from fossils,coal and oil,plus ancient mysterious cities around this earth has been looked at and views from an evolution perspective instead of a former world that perished perspective that God's word teaches us if we study about the history of angels and Lucifer plus other places like Jeremiah 4:23-28. The evidence of a very old heavens and earth and the evidence in this earth testifies to a former world existing full of life,not evolution.

Even though I'm not a catholic I do not like all of the division and bickering between Protestants and Catholics as I find doctrines of men in every denomination and we should forgive any past wrongs done I think Christians need to unite in these last days with atheism on the rise and everything else and I have always respected whoever the pope is and I really liked Pope John Paul the 2nd.Merry Christmas to you.
It is just not logical to say that one either rejects or believes in evolution. Why, because one needs define what evolution means in the first place, there are just too many meanings. Some creationist, who reject evolution, believe that all animals and man were formed by God some 5,000 years ago, while I see that evolution happens, and is real, but can not form the codes needed for evolution to happen. Evolution is the end product of DNA, as DNA evolves to improve itself, and the organism, that it creates. That said, DNA can not do anything, until it exist, and DNA exist at the hand of the creator, and if the bible is true, our DNA actually is the same as Gods, which means that we should be capable, of some really great things.

Amen.

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#72

Post by Byblos » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:51 pm

DNA exist at the hand of the creator, and if the bible is true, our DNA actually is the same as Gods, which means that we should be capable, of some really great things.
Care to back this up?
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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#73

Post by RickD » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:00 pm

Byblos wrote:
DNA exist at the hand of the creator, and if the bible is true, our DNA actually is the same as Gods, which means that we should be capable, of some really great things.
Care to back this up?
Please do, Questor. I'd love to see where you came up with the idea that God has dna. And then, that our dna is actually the same as God's.

I'm always open to learn new truths. So please share your sources with us.

If God really does have dna, and our dna is the same as God's, that would mean we are God. I really hope you will enlighten us with your source for this.
John 5:24
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Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#74

Post by TheQuestor » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:19 pm

RickD wrote:
Byblos wrote:
DNA exist at the hand of the creator, and if the bible is true, our DNA actually is the same as Gods, which means that we should be capable, of some really great things.
Care to back this up?
Please do, Questor. I'd love to see where you came up with the idea that God has dna. And then, that our dna is actually the same as God's.

I'm always open to learn new truths. So please share your sources with us.

If God really does have dna, and our dna is the same as God's, that would mean we are God. I really hope you will enlighten us with your source for this.
It's not my idea, God created man in his image, so it seems that your arguments, are not with me, but with the bible.

PS. Everything alive that God created, has DNA, true or false?

PSS. Have you ever seen God?

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Re: Beginners guide to evolutionary theory

#75

Post by Byblos » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:25 pm

TheQuestor wrote:
RickD wrote:
Byblos wrote:
DNA exist at the hand of the creator, and if the bible is true, our DNA actually is the same as Gods, which means that we should be capable, of some really great things.
Care to back this up?
Please do, Questor. I'd love to see where you came up with the idea that God has dna. And then, that our dna is actually the same as God's.

I'm always open to learn new truths. So please share your sources with us.

If God really does have dna, and our dna is the same as God's, that would mean we are God. I really hope you will enlighten us with your source for this.
It's not my idea, God created man in his image, so it seems that your arguments, are not with me, but with the bible.

PS. Everything alive that God created, has DNA, true or false?

PSS. Have you ever seen God?
So no sources then?
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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