Time scale? a very long time indeed.

Discussions on creation beliefs within Christianity, and topics related to creation.
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The11thDr.
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Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#1

Post by The11thDr. » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:35 am

A very long time right? The universe must of been arround for a long time until it was just right for the galaxy and earth must be in the right place too. So creation weither with devine intervention or pure chance must of took a long time correct?

I'm pretty sure that it is only human beings that take shortcuts. So i read about these YEC people, are they nutty or something or is that an opinion? Because i dont think that god or the universe would trick us, its very very old not very very young! Where does god come into it really? Maybe that is what makes the impossible chance possible. Allthough i would still need convincing.

why create at all?
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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#2

Post by Gabrielman » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:50 pm

I think you may find this article helpful to you, yes God did create over a long period of time. Does Genesis One Conflict with Science? Day-Age Interpretation

So far as why He should create. Well think of it like this, He was alone, He wanted someone to be with, someone to love and someone to converse with. Thusly He created what He wanted, and that was us. Would you like to spend an eternity alone? He made us to love Him, and He loves us with all of His heart and soul and mind. That is why He created.
Once I was trapped in a perpetual night, without even a star to light the sky. Now I stand in the glory of the Son, and not even a faint shadow of darkness remains.

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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#3

Post by The11thDr. » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:24 pm

Oh, hey thanks i think i will take a look at that.

It looks well reasoned. Is that text really from the bible? it reads fairly easy, i thought that the official bible talked in olde speak.(i do have one of these, erm for reasons)

What i understood the page to be saying was that things where introduced gradually, so i guess that is a way of having no evolution at all. But how would that happen? Has anyone witnessed god creating a new species? Isn't mutation a fact? Its not like organic tissue can resist mutation is it...So how can it be otherwise?
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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#4

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:29 pm

The11thDr. wrote: Is that text really from the bible? it reads fairly easy, i thought that the official bible talked in olde speak.(i do have one of these, erm for reasons)
I beseech thee, chuckest out ye olde Bible and consigueth thyself a rendering in the idiom of today!

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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#5

Post by Gman » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:35 pm

The11thDr. wrote:A very long time right?
About 14 billion years.. Give or take a few billion years.
The11thDr. wrote:The universe must of been arround for a long time until it was just right for the galaxy and earth must be in the right place too. So creation weither with devine intervention or pure chance must of took a long time correct?
True, our solar system would have to be in a certain part of the galaxy and the earth would also have to be a certain distance from the sun in order to sustain life.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... b514dDqHbN
The11thDr. wrote:I'm pretty sure that it is only human beings that take shortcuts. So i read about these YEC people, are they nutty or something or is that an opinion? Because i dont think that god or the universe would trick us, its very very old not very very young! Where does god come into it really? Maybe that is what makes the impossible chance possible. Allthough i would still need convincing.
Well we think the YEC are nutty, no debate there, but it's when they claim they have the rightly divided word of God is when it gets a bit ugly.. There is a huge rift between OEC and YEC that doesn't necessarily have to do with the age of the earth but with other issues such as death before Adam or Noah's "supposed" global flood.

As far as chance goes, chance has never been seen to create anything.. Well, perhaps maybe in a casino.
The11thDr. wrote:why create at all?
I believe this link gives the best answer.. Why did God create us?

Cheers mate...
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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#6

Post by The11thDr. » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:22 pm

Thanks ill check out those links, and err FL that bible is really hard to read its like got wording 4 centuries old man, i love the bit where it says god createth evil :esurprised: What drama! Sounds like it means earthquakes or times of woe or something though, so its not like they are saying hes a genocidal loony.

Well im looking at your link about why we was created, the pleasure answer seems reasonable. just as the lonely answer...it kind of sounds like this god has needs, which sounds strange to me if you dont mind me saying. Where does jesus come into this? Obviously that man is pretty important to you people and what he has to say must carry some weight. What was said by jesus about god without reference to himself?

Kind of have to fit it all together myself, get a good picture I suppose.
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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#7

Post by Gman » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:57 pm

The11thDr. wrote:Thanks ill check out those links, and err FL that bible is really hard to read its like got wording 4 centuries old man, i love the bit where it says god createth evil :esurprised: What drama! Sounds like it means earthquakes or times of woe or something though, so its not like they are saying hes a genocidal loony.
About God creating evil.. This link get's into that.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... OOkk9KtWJZ
The11thDr. wrote:Well im looking at your link about why we was created, the pleasure answer seems reasonable. just as the lonely answer...it kind of sounds like this god has needs, which sounds strange to me if you dont mind me saying.
Hmmm, I'm not sure... As God, I believe He needs nothing at least that is what the link seems to be implying..
The11thDr. wrote:Where does jesus come into this? Obviously that man is pretty important to you people and what he has to say must carry some weight. What was said by jesus about god without reference to himself?

Kind of have to fit it all together myself, get a good picture I suppose.
Jesus would be the incarnation of God on earth... In some cases as a man, but still always God.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#8

Post by The11thDr. » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:01 pm

Many religeons had incarnations, avatars...and they could also do nifty tricks. Why create if you dont need to? Obviously this god you are talking of must of NEEDED a universe for something, If it is about who receives salvation and comes together with god then it does seem to be a sort of darwininan process if you dont mind my saying such....

Im going to check out that link now.Then maybe try and force myself to sleep. ;)

*I guess that KJV is a bit of a pile of crap then.

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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#9

Post by Gman » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:19 pm

The11thDr. wrote:Many religeons had incarnations, avatars...and they could also do nifty tricks.
That die for humanity...? ;)
The11thDr. wrote:Why create if you dont need to? Obviously this god you are talking of must of NEEDED a universe for something,
Sure.. He created it for us and all the animals and such..
The11thDr. wrote: If it is about who receives salvation and comes together with god then it does seem to be a sort of darwininan process if you dont mind my saying such....
Not at all.. Many here are also theistic evolutionists..
The11thDr. wrote: Im going to check out that link now.Then maybe try and force myself to sleep. ;)

*I guess that KJV is a bit of a pile of crap then.

edit*
Not really... It just depends on how you interpret it.. I actually prefer the KJV in some cases..
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#10

Post by Enigma7457 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:26 pm

My two cents on KJV: I think it reads very poetic. I can't imagine the Psalms or Song of Solomon in any other version.

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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#11

Post by The11thDr. » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:04 am

Oh well i dont think its very useful for me, except if i want to prove god is evil but thats obviously because its a old translation, i can see that. Ill bear in mind those psalms and that song, sure. Gotta be useful for something then. So what translation do you recommend? I can easily get a NiV from a church in my city, should be no problem.

I can understand the idea, that the universe is for us...Kind of because we are here :lol: Aren't extraterrestrials just as likely as a god for creating us though? I dont remember any of these devine incarnations dying for humanity, but i may be mistaken, in what way did jesus die for humanity, wasnt he put to death for incitement or being against the roman leadership or something? What was his crime...?
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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#12

Post by A Y323 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:53 am

The11thDr. wrote:So what translation do you recommend? I can easily get a NiV from a church in my city, should be no problem.
My opinion- NIV (New International Version) to start with, ESV (English Standard Version) later if you want to do more in depth studies. NIV is easy to read, but it's more of a thought-for-thought translation. ESV might be a little harder to read (depends on individual reading level I guess), but it uses a more literal, word-for-word translation. I've also heard good things about the NASB (New American Standard Bible), but NIV and ESV are the ones I personally use.
The11thDr. wrote:I can understand the idea, that the universe is for us...Kind of because we are here :lol: Aren't extraterrestrials just as likely as a god for creating us though?
Maybe... but then you run into the problem of who created the extraterrestrials. Then who created them, and who created them, and who created them, and so on- infinite regression. There needs to be an uncaused-cause.
The11thDr. wrote:I dont remember any of these devine incarnations dying for humanity, but i may be mistaken, in what way did jesus die for humanity, wasnt he put to death for incitement or being against the roman leadership or something? What was his crime...?
Well, physically speaking Jesus died because they beat him and then hung him on a cross. Spiritually speaking he died because he took the burden of all mankind's sins, he accepted the punishment that was meant for all of us.

Jesus lived a sinless life, so he did not commit any crime. That's why the Sanhedrin had such a hard time finding a legal reason to crucify him (Matthew 26:59-60). The Sanhedrin wanted to crucify him for blasphemy (Matthew 26:65-66), but that was not enough reason for Pilate (the Roman judge) (Matthew 27:22-23) (Luke 23:4-5). Yes, incitement of rebellion was one of the charges (even though he taught peace and love for your enemies), but Pilate saw that accusation was unjustified (Luke 23:13-14). Pilate found no reason to punish Jesus (John 19:6). But the crowd kept demanding it (John 19:7-8). Pilate eventually handed Jesus over to the crowd to prevent a riot and to protect his position (John 19:12) (John 19:15-16).

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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#13

Post by Kurieuo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:11 am

The11thDr. wrote:Oh well i dont think its very useful for me, except if i want to prove god is evil but thats obviously because its a old translation, i can see that. Ill bear in mind those psalms and that song, sure. Gotta be useful for something then. So what translation do you recommend? I can easily get a NiV from a church in my city, should be no problem.

I can understand the idea, that the universe is for us...Kind of because we are here :lol: Aren't extraterrestrials just as likely as a god for creating us though? I dont remember any of these devine incarnations dying for humanity, but i may be mistaken, in what way did jesus die for humanity, wasnt he put to death for incitement or being against the roman leadership or something? What was his crime...?
NIV take in consideration the meaning of a whole passage before translating. NASB attempts to translate word for word with a focus on tense. I prefer NASB, as I have seen minor inaccuracies in NIV when debating theological beliefs. However, most translations are quite good.

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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#14

Post by The11thDr. » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:46 am

I guess i can just burn this koran and book of mormon then, cant i? (its funney stuff :lol: )

I guess you dont run into that problem of infinite regression with a creator god then do you? Come on, you must of heard of the ultimate boeing 747 argument, a super god most of created that one...and so on. Why not a multiverse? Its a good playing field for massive amounts of chance to happen, heck somewhere there is a monkey that has just completed the complete works of shakespeare! If its possible it can happen can't it? :pound:

Accepting punishment for other people? thats a bit harsh isn't it...! So was pirate guilty because he handed him over for punishment?
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Re: Time scale? a very long time indeed.

#15

Post by zoegirl » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:53 am

That's how much God loves us...He dies for our sins.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

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