Heaven

Discussions on creation beliefs within Christianity, and topics related to creation.
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Sharna
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Heaven

#1

Post by Sharna » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:53 pm

I was thinking today about Heaven. The Bible indicates that Heaven exists outside of time (I think...), so does this mean that when we die, all of our family and friends, actually, EVERYONE, will be there already? It is an entertaining thought, and I was just wondering your views on it.

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Jac3510
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Re: Heaven

#2

Post by Jac3510 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:32 am

Let me challenge the "I think. . ." Where do you get the notion from that Heaven exists outside of time?
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

Sharna
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Re: Heaven

#3

Post by Sharna » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:03 pm

Well, Heaven is eternal, and so is God. God exists outside of time. It is logical to assume that since Heaven is eternal, it must exist outside of time as well.

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Kurieuo
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Re: Heaven

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Post by Kurieuo » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:13 am

Sharna wrote:Well, Heaven is eternal, and so is God. God exists outside of time. It is logical to assume that since Heaven is eternal, it must exist outside of time as well.
Does "eternal" for you necessarily imply "outside of time"?

For example, I believe God is eternal, however I also believe He willingly chose to enter into time at creation. So whereas God was timeless without creation, at creation God willingly decided to enter into time in order to have a true relationship with us. (Jac would disagree as he sees no inconsistency with God entering into time and yet remaining timeless - however I am just describing why I do not believe "eternal" does not necessarily imply "outside of time").

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Re: Heaven

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Post by warhoop » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:03 pm

Well, Heaven is eternal, and so is God. God exists outside of time. It is logical to assume that since Heaven is eternal, it must exist outside of time as well.
I think that statement would qualify as a non sequitur. Also, eternal is in reference to time; hence, without time, you have no frame of reference for eternity.

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ageofknowledge
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Re: Heaven

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Post by ageofknowledge » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:04 pm

warhoop wrote:
Well, Heaven is eternal, and so is God. God exists outside of time. It is logical to assume that since Heaven is eternal, it must exist outside of time as well.
I think that statement would qualify as a non sequitur. Also, eternal is in reference to time; hence, without time, you have no frame of reference for eternity.
Now wait a minute. Wikipedia defines a non sequitur as "a conversational and literary device, often used for comical purposes (as opposed to its use in formal logic). It is a comment which, due to its apparent lack of meaning relative to what it follows, seems absurd to the point of being humorous or confusing, as in the following joke: Q: How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb? A: Fish."

Was their statement really a comical statement as far removed logically from reality as the provided question and answer? I don't think so.

The point is that if God can exist outside of time which is a dimension of this physical universe (since God isn't contained to a physical body within this physical universe) then He can exist outside of the universe's dimension of time. The assertion follows the rules of logic and need not be forciblly constrained to the definition of non sequitur.

Even freshman high school algebra can provide an illustration as follows:

Image ------------------------------------------------Image

with the line representing the aggregate of time's existence (with a start and end origin) between the two infinite positions where time, as a function of our universe, ceases to exist.

All of which is very different from being compared to a fish, representing an unknown number of surrealists, screwing in a lightbulb.

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warhoop
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Re: Heaven

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Post by warhoop » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:14 pm

The point is that if God can exist outside of time which is a dimension of this physical universe (since God isn't contained to a physical body within this physical universe) then He can exist outside of the universe's dimension of time.
I don't understand this statement. You just said that if God can exist outside of time, then He can exist outside of time. Either way, I don't rebutt that God can or does exist outside of time; my point is that "it does not follow" that if God exists outside of time that heaven must also exist outside of time.

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ageofknowledge
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Re: Heaven

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Post by ageofknowledge » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:03 pm

warhoop wrote:
The point is that if God can exist outside of time which is a dimension of this physical universe (since God isn't contained to a physical body within this physical universe) then He can exist outside of the universe's dimension of time.
I don't understand this statement. You just said that if God can exist outside of time, then He can exist outside of time. Either way, I don't rebutt that God can or does exist outside of time; my point is that "it does not follow" that if God exists outside of time that heaven must also exist outside of time.
The english word heaven is used to represent various things in scripture including a location where God resides to space in this physical universe, for example. When talking about the first usage we have to look at where scripture says heaven is. It is definitely not a location in this physical universe currently. It cannot be as God resides there with Jesus at His right hand. However, that is going to change. Read David's 'The Theology of Heaven' http://www.kaleochurch.com/sermon/the-t ... of-heaven/

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Re: Heaven

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Post by TellMe~Ily » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:32 am

hmm,maybe

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Re: Heaven

#10

Post by For_Narniaaa » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:04 pm

Well, we could just wait and see when we get there. ;)
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