Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
Philip
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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#16

Post by Philip » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:18 pm

Proof: I personally believe that the word should not be capitalized. If Jesus were God it would not say in the beginning because God himself has no beginning. All creation protruding would be subject to a beginning so God is not referring to the Word in regards to his son. His son was his first creation. I believe its simply referring to the words being the inspired word of God given down since the beginning.
Note, verse 1: "The Word WAS God." And also that "The Word" was "the Creator of ALL things." Now, go to the first verse of the Bible, which refers to "the Beginning, and likewise, to God creating the world and all that exists (Genesis 1:1): "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Now, go a few more verses into John 1 to see that this "Word, Who was the "Creator of all things," also "took on "flesh": "14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth."' And so, this "Word" not only "dwelt upon us," but He also is identified: "the only Son from the Father."

So, studying just the above, you should realize that "The Word" was Jesus, whom "was God" and "dwelt" amongst men, and was also the "Son from the Father." It's all right there. But it's also all across the New Testament.

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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#17

Post by ProofGodExists » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:54 pm

I will have to look further into to it. There is also a lot of scriptures that set a definitive line between them being two separate entities. I am optimistic when it comes to humbling myself to possible truths. However all my life I have been taught that they are not the same. With factual scriptures when Jesus said the father is greater then I. Or examples of him praying before his father in the heavens for strength because his spirit was willing but this flesh was weak. Or possibly when the Angel's took him into the wilderness to enlighten him of who he was. Its is severely controversial. Then again is it possible that 1 small thing was changed by the wicked one to create a conflict? I have many questions regarding it that stay unanswered. Even when Jesus gave the model prayer to his disciples he spoke by saying Father who is in the heavens let your name be sanctified.

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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#18

Post by Philip » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:24 pm

Proof, you're open mind is good! Work your way down the following comprehensive looks at Jesus is God:

http://www.godandscience.org/cults/songod.html

And especially the links on this page: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/songod.html

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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

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Post by ProofGodExists » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:38 pm

Philip wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:24 pm
Proof, you're open mind is good! Work your way down the following comprehensive looks at Jesus is God:

http://www.godandscience.org/cults/songod.html

And especially the links on this page: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/songod.html
Phillip you have made a believer out of me. I took the time to Read what you linked me too. I understand now and see where it does not make sense. If Jesus is not God and merely a creation of God then God would also have to prove himself to his son that his position of Authority rightfully belongs to nobody else but himself. Satan himself challenged Gods authority to rule. If Jesus was only his son then God would be seen as a coward by sending his son. Wow now I know why Satan tempted Jesus here on earth. Even Satan was sceptical that God was Jesus in the flesh. That's why Satan tempted him to throw himself off a cliff if he really was the son of man. Jesus is God I see now. He lowered himself as the almighty showing pure love and undeserved kindness to prove he is truly The King of kings, the Lord over all lords. The 1 true God! Thank you it all makes sense now. Ever since a kid I was misled. Now that I know Jesus is God it brings my relationship to God extremely close. Wow what a deception! Thank you! Thank you Jesus!!!

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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#20

Post by Philip » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:52 pm

Proof: Phillip you have made a believer out of me. I took the time to Read what you linked me too. I understand now and see where it does not make sense. If Jesus is not God and merely a creation of God then God would also have to prove himself to his son that his position of Authority rightfully belongs to nobody else but himself. Satan himself challenged Gods authority to rule. If Jesus was only his son then God would be seen as a coward by sending his son. Wow now I know why Satan tempted Jesus here on earth. Even Satan was sceptical that God was Jesus in the flesh. That's why Satan tempted him to throw himself off a cliff if he really was the son of man. Jesus is God I see now. He lowered himself as the almighty showing pure love and undeserved kindness to prove he is truly The King of kings, the Lord over all lords. The 1 true God! Thank you it all makes sense now. Ever since a kid I was misled. Now that I know Jesus is God it brings my relationship to God extremely close. Wow what a deception! Thank you! Thank you Jesus!!!
:amen: Outstanding, Proof!!! And having an open heart and mind is how truth is found - because God always desires to reward one who earnestly seeks His truths in such a way!

Proof, if you continue to hang out on this site - much like myself - you'll learn a lot about Scripture, theology, and some of the things you've always wondered about. There are some really insightful people here, and they truly enjoy helping others to insights about God.

BTW, Proof - how did you happen to find this forum?

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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#21

Post by ProofGodExists » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:22 pm

I think I will stay and learn as much as possible. I humble myself to his word when he says that I could live forever and still not know everything. I know that is truth because I have a beginning where as God has always existed and man would first have no beginning to know everything. So I seek to know all that I am able to better understand the gifts that he has given us all!

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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#22

Post by Philip » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:27 pm

Proof - how did you happen to find this forum? Thanks!

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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#23

Post by ProofGodExists » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:38 pm

Philip wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:27 pm
Proof - how did you happen to find this forum? Thanks!
I searched Google for a discussion that talks about science and the bible. My aim was to try and erase the line between the two for those who believe in 1 and not the other. Along with attempting to use science for the bias intellectuals seeking answers in the idea that some may only know science and the idea of God. Tbh man now has found true evidence of grand design through modern science. This alone leaves these types of individuals seeking answers about God and it might gather them here on a website forum like this to see how it all truly fits in together.
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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#24

Post by 1over137 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:10 am

ProofGodExists wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:19 pm
I already gave you the answer "quantum fluctuations". Google search the definition of what it is. Its is a force that is not physical that is outside time and acts on the physical. To literally sum up what quantum fluctuations really is in all its definitions in a single title that all know "God" is the biblical title for the scientific title for "quantum fluctuations". Everything he explains about himself defines what our science has now found. God is the only thing that is not bound by our physical laws. The very reason I am here explaining this is literally enough proof of that in my understanding of it. But that's just me, other people are at there own levels of understanding. So unless we are all on the same level of understanding it will be hard for others to grasp a concept. I honestly am only here explaining this simply in hope that someone who is not ignorant and knows enough may use this as a puzzle piece in another proof of our loving Creator.
Proof,

I have not got response to "he slowed down his energies". What do you mean by this?

To the quantum fluctuations:
I find it unhappy formulation: "forces of energies manipulate the laws of physics".

Laws of Physics are laws of physics.
One such law is Heisenber's uncertainty principle, stating that change in energy and change in time cannot be measured
exactly at the same time.
delta t * delta E >= htrans / 2 (htrans is just a constant - number).
If delta t -> 0 (very tiny time), then delta E is enourmous (-> infinity), meaning that change in energy can be huge for very small time, and thus gives rise to virtual particles creation (virtual - not real), then these virual particles annihilate
and we are back to the initial state, or things like creation of electron and positron (positron is antiparticle to electron) from 2 photons may happen. (photons = understand light quanta).

To be clear: it is not the heisenberg uncertainty principle that generates particles, but the available energy that allows the particles.
(E = mc2) (E = energy of two light quanta, m -> mass of electron (positron).
Energy is perfectly conserved. It is just that light transformed to electron-positron.

There are no 'forces' that manipulate laws of physics.
All perfectly behaves according to the laws of physics.
And quantum physics laws belong to physics laws and things behave also according to the quantum physics laws.

p.s. disclaimer: quantum theory- I find this theory as a midstep to another theory in future - this theory shows how few we still know about the laws in our nature. Then people speak about mystical things like "virtual particles", which only physicists understand what they talk about (perturbation theory, etc...).
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#25

Post by Philip » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:28 am

Lover: There are no 'forces' that manipulate laws of physics.
Yes, the "laws" of physics aren't forces - they are observations that record observed functions and behaviors at to how things actually work. And so things must first exist and then they must have observable functionalities that can be recorded and analyzed. And so, when these observations are written down in a useful manner - this is when they are codified as "laws."

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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#26

Post by ProofGodExists » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:05 pm

You both talk about the laws of physics so much you forget I am not actually taking about the laws at all. We are talking about energy. Okay okay if energy is based or codified as a physical law in relation to physics itself then so be it. Even though energy in pure form is not physical but energizes physical atoms. I guess in a way energy still has a physical effect so it again can be documented as part of the laws of our physics.

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Re: Mans ignorance in science is all science without God

#27

Post by Byblos » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:37 am

ProofGodExists wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:05 pm
I guess in a way energy still has a physical effect so it again can be documented as part of the laws of our physics.
It's not a guess, it's a fact. Mass and energy are interchangeable (E=MC2). The proof that God exists is real but is not in physics or energy or any of the sciences. It's in metaphysics. I would encourage you to buy and download an e-book called Five Proofs for the Existence of God by Edward Feser. You can start by reading this discussion I had recently on one of the proofs titled The Principle Of Sufficient Reason.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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