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Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:00 am
by abelcainsbrother
All the Skeptics of the shroud are doing is ignoring the facts about the shroud causing confusion about the evidence for the Shroud.But what you need to understand is that instead of causing confusion about the real evidence behind the shroud the skeptics need to prove the shroud is a fake/forgery because the Skeptics claim this but have never been able to prove this by showing how the image on the shroud and the over 400 blood stains from the crucifixion got there on the burial linen of the shroud.
Plus,get this, they know these over 400 blood stains were on the burial linen BEFORE the image was even produced.This is VERY important to know and realize.So the Skeptics MUST put these over 400 scourge blood stains on the burial linen FIRST,,they are all over the back,chest and legs on both sides of the shroud image,then produce an image WITHOUT covering over these blood stains and they CANNOT do it.
They need to focus on proving the shroud is a forgery and the only way to do this is to create another shroud image like the real shroud which they cannot do.It is those who claim the shroud is a fake/forgery that have no evidence to claim this,but yet still claim it.
If you do a google search on the shroud you'd come to the conclusion the shroud is a fake/forgery but there is no evidence to prove this because no skeptic can replicate the image on the shroud plus the real blood stains to prove it is a fake/forgery and many skeptics have tried to replicate it but have failed. In the failed attempts to replicate the shroud image with real blood stains on it they allways ignore the over 400 blood stains on the real shroud to where the failed attempts have no blood stains on them and just an image that is not like the original image on the shroud.
They always ignore the real blood stains on the real shroud because they would just cover over all of them when they produce their image that again is still not like the original shroud image and has NO over 400 blood stains on it from the scourge wounds and the nails in the hands and ankles,,plus the crown of thorns,plus the spear wound in the side. Yet they claim it is like the real shroud image when they ignored the over 400 scourge blood stains on the real shroud all over the chest,back and legs on both sides of the image.None of the failed attempts to try to show how the shroud image was put their have these blood over 400 blood stains from a Roman scourging on them,not even one.They totally ignore these blood stains that are visible on the real shroud.Also,it does not matter if they claim they are not real blood stains at all.Because they are still visible on the real shroud and so cannot be ignored at all.They still MUST produce an image with these scourge wounds visible.They can use something other than blood and it will not matter.They can use paint,etc and will still not be seen because they'll cover over all of them when producing an image.
They never have these blood stains on them that can be easily seen on the real burial linen of the shroud when a certian kind of light is shown on the real shroud image.And so they cannot prove the shroud is a fake/forgery but yet they still claim it and most people ignorant of the shroud believe the skeptics who have no evidence to prove it is a fake/forgery.It can only be proven it is a fsake/forgery by truly showing how the shroud image plus blood stains got there and they never have and can't do it,so that they have no evidence to claim it is a fake/forgery.The evidence is not on the skeptics side and their lies and confusion.
Now evidence is what we use to tell a truth from a lie and the skeptics MUST stop claiming the shroud is a fake/forgery until they can prove it by showing how this could have been made by man at ANY time in history.
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:33 pm
by bippy123
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:00 am
All the Skeptics of the shroud are doing is ignoring the facts about the shroud causing confusion about the evidence for the Shroud.But what you need to understand is that instead of causing confusion about the real evidence behind the shroud the skeptics need to prove the shroud is a fake/forgery because the Skeptics claim this but have never been able to prove this by showing how the image on the shroud and the over 400 blood stains from the crucifixion got there on the burial linen of the shroud.
Plus,get this, they know these over 400 blood stains were on the burial linen BEFORE the image was even produced.This is VERY important to know and realize.So the Skeptics MUST put these over 400 scourge blood stains on the burial linen FIRST,,they are all over the back,chest and legs on both sides of the shroud image,then produce an image WITHOUT covering over these blood stains and they CANNOT do it.
They need to focus on proving the shroud is a forgery and the only way to do this is to create another shroud image like the real shroud which they cannot do.It is those who claim the shroud is a fake/forgery that have no evidence to claim this,but yet still claim it.
If you do a google search on the shroud you'd come to the conclusion the shroud is a fake/forgery but there is no evidence to prove this because no skeptic can replicate the image on the shroud plus the real blood stains to prove it is a fake/forgery and many skeptics have tried to replicate it but have failed. In the failed attempts to replicate the shroud image with real blood stains on it they allways ignore the over 400 blood stains on the real shroud to where the failed attempts have no blood stains on them and just an image that is not like the original image on the shroud.
They always ignore the real blood stains on the real shroud because they would just cover over all of them when they produce their image that again is still not like the original shroud image and has NO over 400 blood stains on it from the scourge wounds and the nails in the hands and ankles,,plus the crown of thorns,plus the spear wound in the side. Yet they claim it is like the real shroud image when they ignored the over 400 scourge blood stains on the real shroud all over the chest,back and legs on both sides of the image.None of the failed attempts to try to show how the shroud image was put their have these blood over 400 blood stains from a Roman scourging on them,not even one.They totally ignore these blood stains that are visible on the real shroud.Also,it does not matter if they claim they are not real blood stains at all.Because they are still visible on the real shroud and so cannot be ignored at all.They still MUST produce an image with these scourge wounds visible.They can use something other than blood and it will not matter.They can use paint,etc and will still not be seen because they'll cover over all of them when producing an image.
They never have these blood stains on them that can be easily seen on the real burial linen of the shroud when a certian kind of light is shown on the real shroud image.And so they cannot prove the shroud is a fake/forgery but yet they still claim it and most people ignorant of the shroud believe the skeptics who have no evidence to prove it is a fake/forgery.It can only be proven it is a fsake/forgery by truly showing how the shroud image plus blood stains got there and they never have and can't do it,so that they have no evidence to claim it is a fake/forgery.The evidence is not on the skeptics side and their lies and confusion.
Now evidence is what we use to tell a truth from a lie and the skeptics MUST stop claiming the shroud is a fake/forgery until they can prove it by showing how this could have been made by man at ANY time in history.
Great points Abel . Just looking at all of these key evidences should make any open minded person look intuitively at the shroud and think how could anyone back them create this image with all of the difficulties involved that science today can’t create.
It’s amazing that the sceptics aren’t honest enough to 1% doubt their own scepticism .
If I was a sceptic if the shroud I’d be scratching my head in complete bewilderment .
As cambridge art historian (whose an agnostic ) said the shroud image doesn’t conform to any artwork from any period of history .
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:11 pm
by DRDS
Hey everyone long long time no see, I thought I would stop by and leave this here. Bippy123 told me to do so and it's Bippy's world and I'm just living in it!
See you later guys GB.
http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/the- ... dzyOXKuqaA
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:43 am
by PaulSacramento
At least all the suspicions about those tests have been proven to be, not only justified, but correct.
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:36 pm
by Philip
The press was no doubt complicit that the 1988 supposed medieval date asserted of the Shroud was an unquestionable scientific fact. Why weren't more questions asked to bring clarity to the accusations of a fraudulent test - as anyone who raised doubts was eagerly dismissed as a conspiracy theorist or a Christian nutjob.
So, it took 30 years and a freedom of information request to exam the supposedly rigorous 1988 scientitic testing if the Shroud. And thus the article quote: “Usually when something is revealed only under duress it is because there is something to hide. Is that the case here?”
And we now learn that the testers not only violated scientific protocol, and tested the absolute worst place on the Shroud (a repaired edge). And while “the entire process was caught on film, when it came time to cut up the sample into sections and deposit them into stainless steel vials, they went into a room outside the view of the camera. This fact is not helpful - did they not know the whole world would be watching?” Now, why would they ever do THAT???
And it is especially strange that the ‘88 researchers would have only tested the edge, as it had "been long held by some scholars that those sample areas had been affected by exposure to fire in 1532 while the shroud was stored in the Sainte-Chapelle, in Chambéry, France.”
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:19 am
by bippy123
Bro it’s all you . You found that link
DRDS is my bro and my eyes and ears on all things shroud
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:22 am
by bippy123
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:43 am
At least all the suspicions about those tests have been proven to be, not only justified, but correct.
Yep Paul , I’m wondering why this link wasn’t as publicized as links that went against the authenticity of the shroud
Hmmmmm
I really wish they would open the shroud to a second test .
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:25 am
by bippy123
Philip wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:36 pm
The press was no doubt complicit that the 1988 supposed medieval date asserted of the Shroud was an unquestionable scientific fact. Why weren't more questions asked to bring clarity to the accusations of a fraudulent test - as anyone who raised doubts was eagerly dismissed as a conspiracy theorist or a Christian nutjob.
So, it took 30 years and a freedom of information request to exam the supposedly rigorous 1988 scientitic testing if the Shroud. And thus the article quote: “Usually when something is revealed only under duress it is because there is something to hide. Is that the case here?”
And we now learn that the testers not only violated scientific protocol, and tested the absolute worst place on the Shroud (a repaired edge). And while “the entire process was caught on film, when it came time to cut up the sample into sections and deposit them into stainless steel vials, they went into a room outside the view of the camera. This fact is not helpful - did they not know the whole world would be watching?” Now, why would they ever do THAT???
And it is especially strange that the ‘88 researchers would have only tested the edge, as it had "been long held by some scholars that those sample areas had been affected by exposure to fire in 1532 while the shroud was stored in the Sainte-Chapelle, in Chambéry, France.”
245, I’ve always wondered by they went into a private room as well . It always made me think about whether someone inside the Vatican might have had a problem with the shroud being dated to the time of Christ .
And then I would remember the words of father amorthe, the Vatican’s chief exorcist .
Just sayin....
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:54 pm
by Philip
Hey, Bip! Missed seeing you around here!
What is Father Amorth's famous quote you refer to?
He was certainly an interesting character!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriele_Amorth
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:36 pm
by bippy123
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanity ... orcist/amp
You’ve said publicly that you believe, referring to the current Church scandals, that Satan is in the Vatican. Do you still believe this?”
“Yes. Today Satan rules the world. The masses no longer believe in God. And, yes, Satan is in the Vatican.”
Same here Philip hope all is well with you .
Yes interesting is an understatement when it comes to the late father amorthe.
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:05 am
by bippy123
As well as this video by the vortex
https://youtu.be/gwyvMVxghwA
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:43 pm
by Philip
Bip, problem with that video is that its long on speculation but short on examinable facts.
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:14 pm
by bippy123
Philip wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:43 pm
Bip, problem with that video is that its long on speculation but short on examinable facts.
Correct Philip and I would fully expect that if Satan was involved .
But this video is a bit better on facts but it doesn’t talk about Satan
https://youtu.be/xx8ku3Oty24
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:57 pm
by Philip
Bip, the problem is that Jesus never established some Popehood or clerical hierarchy as the Roman Church asserts. There has been corruption there for many centuries. That this present pope is trying to legitimize homosexuality should be no surprise. He's all about leftist politics and trying to make the church more with our secular times. From the denial of marriage for priests to the doctrine of Papal Infallibility and more, the popes and church have asserted they have the right to write new teachings - and they got away with this until Luther (and others), the printing press, and people began to have access to Scripture they could personally read and study. And what is happening now is so outrageous, that even Catholics who hadn't paid much attention to the Bible are waking up to the treachery that has entered the CC. And THAT is a good thing! But I don't think she can be reformed within the present system, its power and tentacles.
The sad thing is, for many Catholics, if they question many of the teachings of the Pope and the Catholic Church, or doubt them, for such Catholics, it's like doubting God's Word itself. But corruption within the Church is found in all denominations, yet few with the power structure and reach of the CC.
Re: Shroud of Turin - Summary of Evidence for its Authenticity
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:47 am
by Philip
Sorry, amyhimesama, first-time posts must first be approved and somehow we unfortunately missed yours. Thanks and hope you'll return to the forum!
Meanwhile, Bip, any new Shroud news?