RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3502
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA
Has liked: 164 times
Been liked: 113 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#721

Post by Audie » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:43 am

Stu wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:The evidence for evolution is vast and only deniable by those that simply choose to not believe it.
Rubbish, the evidence for evolution is not "vast", in fact the evidence that is available is quite small; a very many people smarter than you, I or anyone on this board deny evolution.

Could evolution really create something more complex than morse code?
There are super smart jews who deny jesus was who you think, so, better hunt up a new religion.

As for your link, a creosite? :D. How droll.

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9035
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada
Has liked: 120 times
Been liked: 341 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#722

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:48 am

Stu wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:The evidence for evolution is vast and only deniable by those that simply choose to not believe it.
Rubbish, the evidence for evolution is not "vast", in fact the evidence that is available is quite small; a very many people smarter than you, I or anyone on this board deny evolution.

Could evolution really create something more complex than morse code?

I can't take you seriously if you are not serious.
These users liked this post by PaulSacramento:
Audie (Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:49 am)

Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3502
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA
Has liked: 164 times
Been liked: 113 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#723

Post by Audie » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:49 am

Jac3510 wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Jac3510 wrote:You aren't going over my head, ACB. But if it makes you feel better to think so, then fine. You'll get no argument from me.

Don't be so sensitive. It wasn't meant as a slight or whatever. This is about the evidence used in evolution science and what is confirmed and what is not confirmed.
I'm not being sensitive, ACB. But if it makes you feel better to think so, then fine. You'll get no argument from me.
"You just get mad" "You are being too sensitive"

He keeps saying those things to try to improve a losing hand, jac.

As you know. But sure, let him feel better. Next time he says it to me,
I should roar back all caps bold font and lotsa exclamation marx.
Might make his day!

hughfarey
Advanced Senior Member
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:58 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 49 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#724

Post by hughfarey » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:59 am

Stu wrote:Rubbish, the evidence for evolution is not "vast", in fact the evidence that is available is quite small
I suppose it depends on your definition of 'vast', and how you go about counting it. In my opinion the evidence is indeed 'vast'. It extends to research into every corner of the living world. Entering something like "evolution of [living thing]" into any search engine will throw up numerous papers devoted to its evolution, all of which give fossil or DNA evidence. In fact I doubt if there is anything for which the evidence is more vast, but I'm willing to concede I may be wrong, if Stu would like to explain how.
a very many people smarter than you, I or anyone on this board deny evolution.
Nonsense. Name one.
Could evolution really create something more complex than morse code
Yes of course it can, and there is a vast amount of evidence to show how.

Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3502
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA
Has liked: 164 times
Been liked: 113 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#725

Post by Audie » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:44 pm

hughfarey wrote:
Stu wrote:Rubbish, the evidence for evolution is not "vast", in fact the evidence that is available is quite small
I suppose it depends on your definition of 'vast', and how you go about counting it. In my opinion the evidence is indeed 'vast'. It extends to research into every corner of the living world. Entering something like "evolution of [living thing]" into any search engine will throw up numerous papers devoted to its evolution, all of which give fossil or DNA evidence. In fact I doubt if there is anything for which the evidence is more vast, but I'm willing to concede I may be wrong, if Stu would like to explain how.
a very many people smarter than you, I or anyone on this board deny evolution.
Nonsense. Name one.
Could evolution really create something more complex than morse code
Yes of course it can, and there is a vast amount of evidence to show how.
Quite possibly he can name one or more. Some are religious nuts, others may be morally weak or simply insane.

None, though, can deny evolution with facts to disprove it.

Whivh returns us to the observable pattern, that one cannot be well informed,
and a yec. Either ignorant or intelldctually dishonest is the lot of the yec.

My saying so does irritate the ignorant, and the dishonest.

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1083
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 12 times
Been liked: 32 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#726

Post by Stu » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:25 am

Audie wrote:
hughfarey wrote:
Stu wrote:Rubbish, the evidence for evolution is not "vast", in fact the evidence that is available is quite small
I suppose it depends on your definition of 'vast', and how you go about counting it. In my opinion the evidence is indeed 'vast'. It extends to research into every corner of the living world. Entering something like "evolution of [living thing]" into any search engine will throw up numerous papers devoted to its evolution, all of which give fossil or DNA evidence. In fact I doubt if there is anything for which the evidence is more vast, but I'm willing to concede I may be wrong, if Stu would like to explain how.
a very many people smarter than you, I or anyone on this board deny evolution.
Nonsense. Name one.
Could evolution really create something more complex than morse code
Yes of course it can, and there is a vast amount of evidence to show how.
Quite possibly he can name one or more. Some are religious nuts, others may be morally weak or simply insane.

None, though, can deny evolution with facts to disprove it.

Whivh returns us to the observable pattern, that one cannot be well informed,
and a yec. Either ignorant or intelldctually dishonest is the lot of the yec.

My saying so does irritate the ignorant, and the dishonest.
If you repeat a lie often enough, it eventually becomes the truth - that is evolution.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

hughfarey
Advanced Senior Member
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:58 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 49 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#727

Post by hughfarey » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:53 am

Stu wrote:If you repeat a lie often enough, it eventually becomes the truth - that is evolution.
This doesn't mean anything, does it? Has the fable of Noah's Ark become truth after 5000 years or so of repetition? How do you know? Is that evolution?

Now back to the point.
1) What do you mean by "the evidence that is available [for evolution] is quite small"?
2) Can you name one of the "very many people smarter than [...] anyone on this board" who deny evolution?

Simple enough questions, surely.

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1083
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 12 times
Been liked: 32 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#728

Post by Stu » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:14 am

hughfarey wrote:
Stu wrote:If you repeat a lie often enough, it eventually becomes the truth - that is evolution.
This doesn't mean anything, does it? Has the fable of Noah's Ark become truth after 5000 years or so of repetition? How do you know? Is that evolution?

Now back to the point.
1) What do you mean by "the evidence that is available [for evolution] is quite small"?
2) Can you name one of the "very many people smarter than [...] anyone on this board" who deny evolution?

Simple enough questions, surely.
Stephen C Meyer for one, and all the people at the Discovery Institute.

But I really don't want to get into this much, as I've been down this road a hundred times before.

You call yourself a Christian yet you refer to Noah's Ark as a fable... ok then.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

hughfarey
Advanced Senior Member
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:58 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 49 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#729

Post by hughfarey » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:16 am

Stu wrote:
hughfarey wrote: 1) What do you mean by "the evidence that is available [for evolution] is quite small"?
2) Can you name one of the "very many people smarter than [...] anyone on this board" who deny evolution?
Stephen C Meyer for one, and all the people at the Discovery Institute.
Really? And what makes you think he is "smarter than [...] anyone on this board"?
But I really don't want to get into this much, as I've been down this road a hundred times before.
Then it wasn't very smart of you to jump in just now with that rather sweeping post, was it?
You call yourself a Christian yet you refer to Noah's Ark as a fable... ok then.
Yes. Like most Christians, actually.

Oh, and you missed Question 1. Any reply to that?

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21102
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1055 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#730

Post by RickD » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:26 am

Hugh,

Do you want to back up your assertion that most Christians believe the story of Noah's Ark is a fable?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1083
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 12 times
Been liked: 32 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#731

Post by Stu » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:32 am

hughfarey wrote:
Stu wrote:
hughfarey wrote: 1) What do you mean by "the evidence that is available [for evolution] is quite small"?
2) Can you name one of the "very many people smarter than [...] anyone on this board" who deny evolution?
Stephen C Meyer for one, and all the people at the Discovery Institute.
Really? And what makes you think he is "smarter than [...] anyone on this board"?
But I really don't want to get into this much, as I've been down this road a hundred times before.
Then it wasn't very smart of you to jump in just now with that rather sweeping post, was it?
You call yourself a Christian yet you refer to Noah's Ark as a fable... ok then.
Yes. Like most Christians, actually.

Oh, and you missed Question 1. Any reply to that?
If you think you're smarter than Stephen, well I can't argue with that.

I responded to her ridiculous sweeping statements with another sweeping statement ;)
And I was referring to my getting involved in the evolution debate.

What makes you say the Noah's Ark story is a fable?
Nothing in the Bible indicates that it was a fable. In fact Jesus said:

"Everybody kept on eating and drinking, men and women married, up to the very day Noah went into the ark and the Flood came and killed them all" (Luke 17:27)

Here a he refers to Noah and the flood not as a fable but as history.
And I suggest you are well in the minority of Christians who think Noah's flood was a fable.

Question 1: From what I've seen I haven't been very impressed with the evidence for evolution.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3502
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA
Has liked: 164 times
Been liked: 113 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#732

Post by Audie » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:40 am

RickD wrote:Hugh,

Do you want to back up your assertion that most Christians believe the story of Noah's Ark is a fable?
Wishful thinking prrhaps. Most Christians may well be more the trailer park sort, low education, low income, and deeply superstitious.

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1083
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 12 times
Been liked: 32 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#733

Post by Stu » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:56 am

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:Hugh,

Do you want to back up your assertion that most Christians believe the story of Noah's Ark is a fable?
Wishful thinking prrhaps. Most Christians may well be more the trailer park sort, low education, low income, and deeply superstitious.
LOL :lol: and I guess you think you are smarter than the average Christian to, don't you. And by some way no doubt :pound:
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3502
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA
Has liked: 164 times
Been liked: 113 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#734

Post by Audie » Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:05 am

Stu wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:Hugh,

Do you want to back up your assertion that most Christians believe the story of Noah's Ark is a fable?
Wishful thinking prrhaps. Most Christians may well be more the trailer park sort, low education, low income, and deeply superstitious.
LOL :lol: and I guess you think you are smarter than the average Christian to, don't you. And by some way no doubt :pound:

Well that would be damning with faint praise.

hughfarey
Advanced Senior Member
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:58 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 49 times

Re: RTB: Serious Problems with Evolution

#735

Post by hughfarey » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:26 am

RickD wrote:Hugh, Do you want to back up your assertion that most Christians believe the story of Noah's Ark is a fable?
No, I don't. There are various polls of dubious provenance about, most of which suggest that 60% of Americans believe it's true, most of whom are evangelicals, while only 44% of Catholics do. How that applies to the rest of the world is anyone's guess.
Stu wrote:If you think you're smarter than Stephen, well I can't argue with that.
Splendid. It's not quite a response to my question (read it closely again), but it'll do.
And I was referring to my getting involved in the evolution debate.
Presumably with your eyes shut. "From what I've seen I haven't been very impressed with the evidence for evolution." Well, fair enough. If 'from what you've seen' is a definitive assessment of the evidence for evolution, then you're far smarter than Stephen Mayer.
What makes you say the Noah's Ark story is a fable? Nothing in the Bible indicates that it was a fable. In fact Jesus said: "Everybody kept on eating and drinking, men and women married, up to the very day Noah went into the ark and the Flood came and killed them all" (Luke 17:27) Here he refers to Noah and the flood not as a fable but as history."
Quite so, after all, the myth had been repeated for 3000 years or so by then, so by your own criterion it was by then true.

You missed the point really. Remember you said: "If you repeat a lie often enough, it eventually becomes the truth." So how do you know whether anything you think is true is really true, or just an oft repeated lie? Your remark suggests that you think I believe in evolution simply because it has been repeated often enough. However I could just as easily say the same of your beliefs, with rather more justification, because they have been repeated so much more. And if you think that this argument is fatuous when it comes to your beliefs, then it is equally fatuous to apply it to mine. So why say it?

Post Reply