Evidence for theistic evolution

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#121

Post by Storyteller » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:52 pm

ToE is widely accepted as the best theory there is, there is some evidence for it, same as God really. No one can PROVE God exists yet I believe He does. Presumably you do too based on what youve found out.

Evolution doesnt disprove God nor does God disprove evolution.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#122

Post by abelcainsbrother » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:56 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Audie,here is your chance to back that up with scientific evidence.This thread is directed at theistic evolutionists but if you believe life evolves too you can back it up with scientific evidence.I encourage it because this thread is for those who believe it and the evidence for it. Evidence can change my mind about evolution and I reject it because of a lack of evidence,I know it probably seems like a lot of evidence to you and there is a lot to wade through but I've waded through it and despite what seems like a lot of evidence,it really isn't. It is just a bunch of so-called evidence piled up on top of the belief by faith and assumptions that life evolves.Perhaps you don't want to take the time to post a bunch of evidence so focus on the strongest evidence you know of that convinces you life evolves.I want to be corrected if I've over looked something.
Hi ACB, just wondering...

To be fair, what kind of scientific evidence would prove to you that life evolved?
Can you provide an example of evidence that would be satisfactory to you.

Just, I often feel both sides talk past each other as they're thinking two different things.
To say there is no evidence for evolution I think is a bit of an oversimplification.

For example, we see viruses develop resistances to antibiotics... we see insects develop resistances to pesticides.
Those who hold to a global flood scenario, also believe in a really rapid evolution from two animals "after their kind".

So really, everyone accepts "evolution" per se, and as such, there is acceptance to some degree for "evolution".
BUT, obviously you mean something more... right?
I think ACB would require actually seeing the process of a creature turning into another creature take place before his very eyes. Obviously this is impossible as it takes millions of years for that to happen and requires millions of generations. The burden of proof is way too high for a historical science, it's like saying I don't believe there was a Roman Empire because I wasn't there to see it.
Evolution teaches that dinosaurs evolved into birds.What is wrong? You mean I must believe what you say in that peer reviewed paper?There is no demonstration it can happen?

Why should I believe you over believing that dinosaurs lived in the former world and perished when the former world perished just like all of the other life we find that is extinct,they simply died when the former world perished and your looking at the forensic evidence for a perished former world and all of the life that died until God created this world and the life we have in this world? I actually have evidence a former world full of life existed that perished. My belief that a former world perished from reading the bible is more credible with fossil evidence of the life that existed in the former world that perished.The lost world that was on this earth and it was lost because of evolution.

See I told you K.........................................

Burden of proof is way too high.
I have shown biblically why I believe a former world full of life perished and I have given solid evidence that a former world existed and yet when I ask for scientific evidence life evolves all I get are declarations it is true.I feel good though knowing that I actually have a lot of evidence that proves a former world existed that perished,the truth should be backed up with evidence and I have given my evidence and it is all of them fossils and evidence of life that was alive at one time and yet died,there is a lot of evidence that a former world existed that perished and it is the kind of evidence you'd find if its true.

I wish I could get you to not look at the fossils from an evolution perspective thinking that they show signs of evolution and instead look at them from a former world that existed on this earth that perished perspective.But I cannot make you look at it like that but I have still given more solid evidence for a former world that existed,even without getting into other evidence,fossils,coal and oil prove it over evidence that life evolves.This is why the gap theory is the only creation theory that beats evolution with evidence.Now where is Richard Dawkins?Let me at him Gap theory creationism vs evolution.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#123

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:55 am

There is no biblical prof of any former world at all. People try to say that when the bible said the earth was void and with out form that it is evidence that the earth was there and God destroy it and started over. The is really just nonsense. The bible says that in the beginning God created the earth and the earth was void and with out form. That was God saying that earth was the first thing he made that he had not put any thing no it yet or shaped it in any way. Then he divides the waters from the land then he starts making every thing else. he wasn't about making something from destruction but about making something from nothing. the bible proves evolution wrong when it says God created everything that was made and that he didn't use evolution to do it. He made everything after its kind. The bible has never been proven wrong and evolution has many times that is why they keep changing how they thing things come about. And the only reason that they say it is the best theory is because one they do not wont to believe in God and tow the bible is not a theory but it is fact and people have proven there is a God. it is not that we haven't proven that there is a God but that people don't wont to believe in God so any time we prove there is a God they say that it isn't prof of God when it is.

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#124

Post by Storyteller » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:14 am

There is no real proof of God and it`s not true to say that people who believe in evolution don`t believe in God, some do.

Evolution hasn`t been proved wrong either. It may not have been proved but neither has God.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#125

Post by Audie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:41 am

jpbg33 wrote:There is no biblical prof of any former world at all. People try to say that when the bible said the earth was void and with out form that it is evidence that the earth was there and God destroy it and started over. The is really just nonsense. The bible says that in the beginning God created the earth and the earth was void and with out form. That was God saying that earth was the first thing he made that he had not put any thing no it yet or shaped it in any way. Then he divides the waters from the land then he starts making every thing else. he wasn't about making something from destruction but about making something from nothing. the bible proves evolution wrong when it says God created everything that was made and that he didn't use evolution to do it. He made everything after its kind. The bible has never been proven wrong and evolution has many times that is why they keep changing how they thing things come about. And the only reason that they say it is the best theory is because one they do not wont to believe in God and tow the bible is not a theory but it is fact and people have proven there is a God. it is not that we haven't proven that there is a God but that people don't wont to believe in God so any time we prove there is a God they say that it isn't prof of God when it is.

Of course there was no "former world" tho if a time machine were available and one could go back to visit the ice age, or see
Antarctica with rainforest, it might well feel like a former world, dont you think so?

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#126

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:01 am

Yes actually there is a lot of prof that God exist. Some of the miracles in the bible can be proven to have happened. But people refuses to believe that God did them. there are wheels at the bottom of the red sea (people say that they thing the picture are photo shopped that is just because they do not wont to believe it). And there are ancient texts that speak of it happening and a lot of the cites in the bible have been found that events that the bible said happened to them have been proven. It isn't that there isn't any prof it is just that any prof that there is people say it is not prof even when they can't disprove it. Evolution comes up with stuff all the time that is disproven unlike the bible evolution keeps having things disproven and the bible keeps having things proven. Not only that but people get healed all the time in ways that science can't explain people just do not wont to admit that God exist.

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#127

Post by Audie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:20 am

I know our gentle friend of the red sea chariots wont accept anything from no awful asian atheist, but perhaps a fellow
Christian could kindly ease him away from this idea.

I've a friend who works fraud, at a bank. She sees it a lot, grannies sending money to Nigeria,
people who buy cashier's checks at a discount, people who withdraw money to pay the tax on their
Dutch lottery winnings.

Sometimes they have to all but bar the door, to keep someone from throwing their savings away, they even call the police
to talk the victim down

A con is always about selling someone on what they want to believe.

I believe a person can believe in God, and not think every face of Mary on a McMuffin
is real.

I even think they are better for it.

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#128

Post by RickD » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:26 am

Here Audie, I fixed it for you. Stop selling yourself short. You're much too intelligent to be an atheist. ;)
Audie wrote:
I know our gentle friend of the red sea chariots wont accept anything from no awful asian atheist agnostic...
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#129

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:33 am

I never pray to Mary and what people say is on a piece of bread has nothing to do with prof of God. Those pieces of bread are happenstances they just happen to look like something they are not miracles.

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#130

Post by Audie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:35 am

RickD wrote:Here Audie, I fixed it for you. Stop selling yourself short. You're much too intelligent to be an atheist. ;)
Audie wrote:
I know our gentle friend of the red sea chariots wont accept anything from no awful asian atheist agnostic...
I yam what I yam.

My Mom was an English professor, dont make me sic her on you.

As to the actual point of my post, do you feel anything one way or another
seeing a fellow Christian making a fool of himself and a mockery of the faith?

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#131

Post by Audie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:39 am

jpbg33 wrote:I never pray to Mary and what people say is on a piece of bread has nothing to do with prof of God. Those pieces of bread are happenstances they just happen to look like something they are not miracles.
Good! You have some skepticism in you.


It is spelled as "proof" not "prof" though. :D

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#132

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:42 am

just because it is real and you can't prove it wrong don't mean it is foolish to beleive

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#133

Post by RickD » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:52 am

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:Here Audie, I fixed it for you. Stop selling yourself short. You're much too intelligent to be an atheist. ;)
Audie wrote:
I know our gentle friend of the red sea chariots wont accept anything from no awful asian atheist agnostic...
I yam what I yam.

My Mom was an English professor, dont make me sic her on you.

As to the actual point of my post, do you feel anything one way or another
seeing a fellow Christian making a fool of himself and a mockery of the faith?
If I say something foolish, I only make myself look foolish. If I say something wrong about God or Christianity, it doesn't make God or Christianity look bad. It makes that false idea that I said look ridiculous though.

On the other hand, I am aware of how when Christians, including myself, say stupid things, it may turn a skeptic away from God even more. But if they were being honest, they'd realize that it's not God or even Christianity that looks foolish, it's just the person saying something foolish.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#134

Post by Audie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:54 am

jpbg33 wrote:just because it is real and you can't prove it wrong don't mean it is foolish to beleive
Look up "Red Sea chariots" in "Answers in Genesis".

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Re: Evidence for theistic evolution

#135

Post by RickD » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:00 am

Audie wrote:
jpbg33 wrote:just because it is real and you can't prove it wrong don't mean it is foolish to beleive
Look up "Red Sea chariots" in "Answers in Genesis".

Audie,

I beg of you. If you are at all open to the possibility that God exists, and Christianity is true, please do not get your info from Answers in Genesis. For someone with your scientific background, who places such a strong emphasis on science, Answers in Genesis is just going to drive you further away from believing in God. You will probably bypass all the good at their website, the info about the gospel, and just focus on what you see as ridiculousness in their scientific conclusions.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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